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View Diary: Executing the Innocent (w/ action item) (71 comments)

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  •  Your invective grows... (0+ / 0-)

    ...with each post. Again, this is why you will never win a death penalty argument with those who do not agree with your position. Until you can convince those who do not side with you, the execution train will keep on rolling.

    I have never, of course, said:

    But you say it's fine to kill 'em all anyway.

    You have no idea where my nuanced stance on the death penalty lies. In fact, one of my books has been praised by several death penalty opponents for helping get a young man off of Texas's death row.

    "Turn on to politics, or politics will turn on you." - Ralph Nader

    by liquidman on Sat Jul 14, 2007 at 09:04:12 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  My invective grows? (0+ / 0-)

      If so, it's only because your reading comprehension shrinks.

      I've posted ample evidence to doubt the certainty of guilt for several people who have been executed. I've presented a statistically incontrovertible argument that we're sentencing innocent people to die. Most importantly, I've shown exactly why Troy Davis is almost certainly innocent of the crimes for which he is going to be executed on Tuesday. All of that feeds my argument that if we're going to say the death penalty is ok, we have to be 100% certain the condemned is guilty.

      In none of the cases I discussed here can anyone objective say that, but you still can't bring yourself to question whether that's acceptable. If that's the kind of respect you have for human life, I don't care where your "nuanced stance" lies.

      But you're right about one thing: I'll never win an argument about the death penalty with someone like you. You still can't see the forest for the trees.

      •  Ample evidence? (0+ / 0-)

        I've posted ample evidence to doubt the certainty of guilt for several people who have been executed.

        See below posts for easily researched refutations.

        I've presented a statistically incontrovertible argument that we're sentencing innocent people to die.

        You've listed a few names that the bought-and-paid for ADP organizations trumpet to its followers as being innocent when, in reality, they were not.

        Most importantly, I've shown exactly why Troy Davis is almost certainly innocent of the crimes for which he is going to be executed on Tuesday.

        Yet, just one day earlier you stated about this exact same case:

        I don't know if Davis is truly innocent or not; I tend to suspect he is.

        Will you be absolutely certain in a few hours?

        I don't care where your "nuanced stance" lies.

        Which is why, again, you will never win over the majority of the United States public with your incredibly narrow view. A large percentage of pro-death penalty supporters have much harsher views on who should be executed than I do -- including former president Bill Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore, former presidential candidate John Kerry, and more top Democratic leaders. And until you can win over a majority of the people, you will have a hard time eliminating capital punishment. Lost in the forest without a map and compass, if you will.

        "Turn on to politics, or politics will turn on you." - Ralph Nader

        by liquidman on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 07:09:53 AM PDT

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        •  Given your obvious bias... (0+ / 0-)

          ...and the fact that your personal website suggests you have a financial stake in supporting the infallibility of the police and prosecutors, not to mention your callous disregard for rules of evidence and the possibility of killing innocent people, I'm not particularly inclined to care what you think.

          I understand the arguments in favor of the death penalty quite well, and if you want to make a case for executing people who have committed particularly heinous crimes and for whom there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to their guilt, you may have a point. But for every case you've "refuted" here, you rely on what the cops and DA's say, though they would never admit to screwing up in a case where someone innocent was executed. You probably think Chris Ochoa should have been put to death, too, given that he confessed to the murder for which he was convicted and sentenced to death. But his confession was coerced, and in a fairly routine manner.

          This diary wasn't about winning over the majority of Americans to my perspective. The majority is frequently wrong anyway -- how else do you explain a majority of voters giving Bush a second term? It was about trying to save the life of one man, who will be put to death tomorrow despite the fact that there is no physical evidence against him and most of the witnesses against him have been discredited. If you walked into court with the evidence we now have, you wouldn't even get a conviction, let alone a death sentence, but you want him killed because he missed a filing deadline. In my book, that makes you a lousy human being. Now, I'm sure you'll whine about that being a personal attack, and I'm sure you'll keep complaining about my warped ideology, but I posted this diary in several different places, and the only person who has had any complaint about it is an individual with a financial stake in the credibility of the police and prosecutors. Given that there are so many pro-death penalty folks reading it, I find that very telling.

          •  Dig deeper (0+ / 0-)

            the fact that your personal website suggests you have a financial stake in supporting the infallibility of the police and prosecutors

            On the contrary, several of my books have taken various police forces to task for coercement, planting of evidence, frame-up jobs, etc.

            My first book has an entire section devoted to police corruption.

            My third book squarely put the blame for a shoddy case on the shoulders of the Austin police department on a capital murder case.

            My fourth book also laid blame on the shoulders of the Houston police department as well as the Harris County District Attorney's office for poor performance and shoddy dealmaking.

            Furthermore, one of my books was read by and influenced a presiding judge in a case where a young man has been removed from death row.

            if you want to make a case for executing people who have committed particularly heinous crimes and for whom there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever as to their guilt, you may have a point.

            Yet, I take it you would not agree with death in such instances due to your firm stance against the death penalty?

            You probably think Chris Ochoa should have been put to death, too, given that he confessed to the murder for which he was convicted and sentenced to death.

            Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I wrote extensively about Christopher Ochoa in one of my books as an example of a wrongful conviction that placed someone on death row.

            In my book, that makes you a lousy human being. Now, I'm sure you'll whine about that being a personal attack

            I could care less. I choose not to use such methods when engaging in discourse.

            I posted this diary in several different places, the only person who has had any complaint about it is an individual with a financial stake in the credibility of the police and prosecutors.

            The true crime genre has numerous books written about wrongful executions, police corruption, coerced confessions, police abuse, etc. Three of my books have contained such material. Needless to say, police officers and DAs are not happy when I come calling.

            As for being the lone dissenting voice here, that's understandable. But I think I am in good company with the likes of the Clintons, Edwards, Gore, Bradley, Gephardt, Dean, Clark, Obama, Kerry, and nearly 60% of all Democrats.

            Given that there are so many pro-death penalty folks reading it, I find that very telling.

            Again, you are incorrect. I conduct polls with my readers and have found nearly a 50/50 split in regard to their opinion on the death penalty.

            "Turn on to politics, or politics will turn on you." - Ralph Nader

            by liquidman on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 10:15:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again, your reading comprehension is appalling (0+ / 0-)

              When I note that there are many pro-death penalty folks reading what I write, and you tell me I'm incorrect because you've "found nearly a 50/50 split in regard to their opinion on the death penalty," I can only conclude that you either are incapable of understanding what I've written or you simply don't care that you may actually be wrong. Either way, I'm done wasting my time on you.

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