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View Diary: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (120 comments)

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  •  Re: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (none)
    I hope the public does not see any "heroism" in this, it is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen a politician do. In a lot of ways it is even worse than the aircraft carrier stunt.
    •  Re: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (none)
      Dream on, the US is a place where the high ground is Sally Jesse, literature is defined by Oprah and Dr Phil gets to define common sense for people who have lost the ability to make decisions, where debate happens on crossfire for gods sake and where questioning the validity of an illegal war witout a plan to achieve an unidentifiable objective against a tactic, not an enemy, is treason.

      You bet this will be constructed as heroism. And unless the dems can get their heads around an active aprpoach to politics, it will be used to beat them over the head for the next year.

      I don't want to hear what you "hope", I want to hear how you are going to turn it around in your daily conversations with his vassals.

      •  Re: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (none)
        I wish I knew how to turn it around. You cannot pour intelligence and sense into people's heads. We have somewhere in the range of 50 million people who are illiterate in the United States and they get their news from Fox, Sally Jesse, etc.
        •  Re: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (none)
          Rob, work on one person at a time. If you find that you don't get anywhere, try new tactics or read books about how to do it. Michael Moore's "How to talk to a Republican" chapter isn't half bad.
        •  Re: "Unprecedented" trip to Iraq? (none)
          You cant 'pour sense into peoples heads'. You cant make them think what you want. Indeed the strength of democracy is our individuality.

          You cant "force them into line" which our leadership  has been trying to do for along time.

          You can LEAD. Its' what Dean is doing. People arent excited about him because of his positions,tactics, or machiavellian strategies to control the populace.  They are excited because he is a Leader. John Kennedy was a leader. Teddy Roosevelt was a leader. FDR was a leader. Its' been so long since we've seen one in politics we forgot what they look like.

          A beauracrat or a tyrant uses his power to force the people where he wants them to be. A leader  stands in front of the people and takes them where they want to go.

          •  Hurry Up and Lead (none)
            Ghandi said that he had to hurry to get in front of his people, especially since he was supposed to be their leader.

            Churchill was a leader, he offered nothing but blood sweat, toil and tears. Americans often say that they need a positive leadership, yet W has been the most negative, fearful person you could imagine. If the Dems can offer actual leadership instead of the endless litany of fear and loathing, maybe they can do it.

            Its something that I have liked about Dean since early on, his comment about Bush "I like the guy, he's just surrounded by bad advice" was leadership, his embrace of Clark just before he declared himself a runner was more of the same.

            What the Dems need is a person who can get fired up about things that matter to him/ her, who can be relentless when it is needed, who doesn't waste his energy by defending himself and his ego to the death and who can do the Clinton thing when someone takes a pot at him, the wry smile, the shaking head and the "there you go again" attitude.

            I read that after the Republican sweep into congress and the "Contract with America" shtick, Clinton invited Gingrich to a barbecue and they were sitting aside from the crowd at one point. Clinton patted Gingrich on the knee and said "you have to know one thing about me, I never give up".

            Where the hell has that stuff gone? Does Dean have it? Maybe Clark, he could get it by osmosis if he's as close to Clinton as some say, but from what I've seen of the rest of them, nope.

    •  Get real (none)
      I can't stand Bush, and I rolled my eyes at his lame "I'm just looking for a hot meal" line.  But the reality is that it was a good thing to do, both politically and otherwise.  Criticising him for it looks like sour grapes, big time.

      Alan, Maverick Leftist "They laugh because they know they're untouchable, not because what I said was wrong." --Sinead O'Connor

      by SlackerInc on Fri Nov 28, 2003 at 03:41:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Get real (none)
        It's good for the CinC to have Thanksgiving dinner with the troops. There are two negatives that people shouldn't overlook, though. The fly-by-night nature of the operation totally contradicts the sunny forecasts they were broadcasting earlier in the year. And if he's only willing to support the troops when he gets a monster photo-op out of it, he doesn't get much credit for the few times he does show support. Symbolic gestures are important, but if those are the only gestures you're offering, it's fair to point out that they're pretty empty on their own.

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