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View Diary: Bush Advocated Violent Overthrow of US Government - ? (323 comments)

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  •  This illustrates what happens when the law does (44+ / 0-)

    not apply equally.  Had these tycoons paid any price we would not be here today.  Letting them retain their power let it spread under the radar.

    I never heard this story until I got on the internet and I was an American History Major and specifically studied FDR and the Labor Movement.

    I might not have been so indifferent to Bush I, not that I supported him, but I did not think he could endanger the country.  I really had no idea that our democracy was so fragile.

    Nor that huge sections of the American people so corruptible.

    •  a question (7+ / 0-)

      Did FDR ever comment publicly on this particular plot? Knowing what I know about him, it seems to me that if he had ever legitimately feared that the stability of the United States government was genuinely in danger, he would have gone directly to the American people with those concerns.

      •  He hinted at it (5+ / 0-)

        in some of speeches, but I don't think he would've announced the plot to the public.

        On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to wait and waiting died.

        by sean oliver on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:04:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The reason I have been off site for 2 hrs researc (26+ / 0-)

        hing.

        Reading back on FDR and Eleanor and their policies, etc.  Eventually I will write a huge diary.

        He was in a delicate position:

        1.  He barely survived a assination attempt on Feb. 15, 1933.  Again a lone maniac who was executed on March 20, 1933 a little more than a month later. Major Cernak of Chicago was killed by his side in the attempt in Miami Florida.  The SS covered FDR and totally left Cernak exposed.  He was not inaugreated until March 4, 1933.  One reason it was then moved to January by Constitutional Amendment.
        1.  There is some evidence that big wigs in Congress were aware of the deal and they passed the neutrality act of 1935 specifically listing selling weapons or supplies to any country involved in war in any way was a violation of this act and subject to treason and execution for it.  Apparently, this completely quieted down these people who went back to business.
        1.  The fact he was so popular made his enemies more than bitter.  He won his first election by more than seven million votes over Hoover.  His second election was by more than eleven million votes over Landon.
        1.  Contrary to what we are told, I think his condition was known to many.  The press had an agreement that they either all took the pictures or no one took them.  He had tremendous love by the working class and professional bureaucrats.  The SS had to be absolutely willing to die for him.  He could not be moved quickly.  He would have to be carried over someone shoulders army casualty style.

        He was considered both courageous and compassionate.

        The more beloved by the people, the more hated by the establishment who considered him a traitor.  Power to the people was not the American way; it was FDR that made it that way.

        1.  He was the first canidate to go to the convention and make an acceptance speech.  In that speech, he laid out his basic program of the New Deal.  He was inaugreated March 4 and on March 6 closed all the banks on a Bank Holiday and they were all subject to government inspection.  All those who were not managed well were not allowed to reopen.  He established the trust of the people then and there and huge animosity with the National Chamber of Commerce who replused any idea of government oversight.  Four days after inaugreation he made his first Fireside Chat where he told the American people what he was doing and why he was doing it and what he expected.  He epitomized the respect of the leader for the people he served which was diametrically opposed by the business community who believed with all sincerity the masses were asses and FDR was now one of them.
        •  The rich did not speak his name (14+ / 0-)

          He was the Voldermort of his class, if you will: He Who Must Not Be Named, a traitor the rich simply called "That Man."

          But he did not mince words either. He called the moneyed, "the malefactors of great wealth."

          Those were the days; when class warfare was afoot, as it is today, but our side did not surrender.

        •  And that is why the greatest generation (9+ / 0-)

          was considered to be the striking power of the Democratic party for so many years:  FDR was THEIR president and they would follow him through hell and by extension HIS party.

          And as they have died off, so has much of the power of the party.

          Anyone see a connection?

          We need to re-establish out modern bona fide' with the people in the same manner that he did.

        •  Look forward to your diary. Great history here. (4+ / 0-)

          Do you have some preliminary links?  For those of us that may not be able to catch and/or rec your diary in time?

          It's full of stars...

          by Terra Mystica on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 10:41:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  For some reason the Roosevelt family had similar (5+ / 0-)

          background to the Bush family, but came to completely opposite conclusions.

          That is my historical great imponderable in this current mess.  

          Why?

          It's full of stars...

          by Terra Mystica on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 10:45:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Short simple explanation --- Pain. nt (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kraant, stonemason, NC Dem, Terra Mystica
            •  Do you mean the pain of service and palsey? (3+ / 0-)

              And therefore some sense of what others endure?

              Not being willfully obtuse.  This discussion raises some interesting issues.

              It's full of stars...

              by Terra Mystica on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 12:48:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, he endured incredible pain from polio. (10+ / 0-)

                He demonstrates true will power he probably had two bouts.  It is amazing he did not loose his lungs at one time.  He fought back so hard to get his hands and back working again.  There were no anagesics at that time.  He worked long hours and then drank scotch to sleep at night.

                He was a tall, handsome, very sporting man until polio at 42. He loved to dance etc. He was 6'4".  He essentially learned to walk on his arm strength with ten lbs. of braces on each leg.

                Then he had to endure being lifted in and out of bed bath, being dressed.  Then he was shouldered carried over someone's back where there were steps and no elevators.

                All of this made him aware of the rural suffering from no electricity.  No private business would do it because of the need for such high initial capitalization and then no prospect of real profit.  Thus, TVA for the South.

                He also lived in Warm Springs with people not having enough to eat on a regular basis.  People always just barely making it and having no pensions etc. working harrowing work til they died.  These people became friends and not statistics.

                Once he was crippled he personally experienced not being allowed to eat in restaurants, go to concerts, etc.  In those days all disease was considered contagious and cripples were not allowed in public places.  The loss of personal respect causes many to try suicide and he got to experience that also.

                When he was young it was said that FDR stood for featherduster.  He was considered a womanizer and a dellitante.  All that changed after polio.  From then on he truly understood there but for the grace of god go I.

                •  I honestly believe it is genetic (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kraant, Terra Mystica

                  From Wiki

                  Franklin Delano Roosevelt was born on January 30, 1882 in Hyde Park, in the Hudson Valley in upstate New York. His father, James Roosevelt, Sr., and his mother, Sara Ann Delano, were each from wealthy old New York families, of Dutch and French ancestry respectively. Franklin was their only child. His paternal grandmother, Mary Rebecca Aspinwall, was a first cousin of Elizabeth Kortright Monroe, wife of the fifth U.S. President, James Monroe. His maternal grandfather, Warren Delano, Jr., a descendant of Mayflower passengers Richard Warren, Isaac Allerton, Degory Priest, and Francis Cooke, made a fortune in the opium trade in China.[1]

                  Young Franklin Roosevelt, with his father and Helen R. Roosevelt, sailing in 1899
                  Roosevelt grew up in an atmosphere of privilege. Sara was a possessive mother, while James was an elderly and remote father (he was 54 when Franklin was born). Sara was the dominant influence in Franklin's early years.[2] Frequent trips to Europe made Roosevelt conversant in German and French. He learned to ride, shoot, row, and play polo and lawn tennis.
                  Roosevelt went to Groton School, an Episcopal boarding school in Massachusetts. He was heavily influenced by the headmaster, Endicott Peabody, who preached the duty of Christians to help the less fortunate and urged his students to enter public service. Roosevelt completed his undergraduate studies at Harvard, where he lived in luxurious Adams House and was a member of the Alpha Delta Phi fraternity. While at Harvard, his fifth cousin Theodore Roosevelt became president, and Theodore's vigorous leadership style and reforming zeal made him Franklin's role model and hero.

                  Clearly FDR had a very different upbringing than Bush, much more akin to the Kennedys. One major consistency is their religious upbringing. There is little difference between Episcopal and Catholic social teaching and moral responsibility to the least among us.

                  We aren't going to destroy the Republic by enforcing the Constitution, we destroy it by inaction, by being fearful of the consequences.

                  by ghengismom on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 07:08:39 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Compare this to our current candidates... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Terra Mystica

                   Those who have had close losses of kin or fight to overcome health issues within the family are very focused on helping the disadvantaged or those that suffer in this rich nation.

                Eisenhower- "We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage."

                by NC Dem on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 07:58:19 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  The white sheep of their socioeconomic class. n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            stonemason
        •  thanks for the info N/T (0+ / 0-)
        •  so... (0+ / 0-)

          dumb question, obvious answer I suppose, but what ever happened to this:

          the neutrality act of 1935 specifically listing selling weapons or supplies to any country involved in war in any way was a violation of this act and subject to treason and execution for it.

          Think of how that would play now:

          The U.S. government is training soldiers in upwards of 70 countries at any given time.

          What a turnaround.

          Your comment bookmarked, diaries hotlisted!

          Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery. The politician will... abdicate [to] his image [which is] much more powerful than he could ever be. -McLuhan

          by stonemason on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 09:18:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Democratic centrists kept pushing the idea (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stonemason, NC Dem, OMwordTHRUdaFOG

      that Poppy Bush's operations in IranContra and BCCI and Iraqgate were just 'policy differences' and scorned those Democrats who risked their lives and careers to uncover, investigate and expose those operations.

      Why did Clinton spend the last 6yrs rehabbing Poppy into an affectionate fatherly image in the public eye?

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