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View Diary: MN-Sen: Coleman already fading (78 comments)

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  •  And the question is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KansasLiberal

    why??  What has changed about Minnesotans?

    "No matter how cynical you are, you can't keep up." -- Woody Allen

    by robokos on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 08:43:22 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It hasn't changed that much (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Superribbie, Bridge Master

      Minnesota Democrats have been set back by a combination of very bad luck (i.e. Wellstone plane crash) and tactical mistakes (poor candidates, the fiasco that was the Wellstone memorial service).  We made huge gains in the state house and Senatein 2006 and have near veto-proof majorities in both, and would have the governership if our candidate (another mistake) hadn't called a reporter a "whore" 3 days before the election.  

      When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: "Bush"

      by Mia Dolan on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:01:19 AM PDT

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      •  The Wellstone Funeral "fiasco" (9+ / 0-)

        wasn't a tactical mistake.  It was a deliberate Republican smear.  Wingers got on the radio an television and lied about what went on at the funeral -- period.

        Cry "Mandate!" and let slip the hounds of accountability.

        by sagra on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:05:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes and No (5+ / 0-)

          The Democrats held a memorial service to express their grief and to mourn their hero.  They did not consider the political ramifications of the service, while the Republicans did, and shamelessly exploited the memorial service for political gain.  Whether or not you can fault the Democrats for that, I don't know.  It was a very tough time.

          The booing of Republican politicians coming to pay respects was completely shameful.  Mark Dayton apologized for this on the floor of the Senate.  I don't know if you saw Rick Khan's speech, but that was beyond a train wreck.  I realize it was a close friend of Wellstone's who was devasted by the loss, but it was a disaster.  Maybe this goes into the bad luck rather than tactical mistake category.  

          The Republicans were shameful in exploiting the service, but we gave them the opening.  

          When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: "Bush"

          by Mia Dolan on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:23:34 AM PDT

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          •  I vote for bad luck (0+ / 0-)

            The Wellstone 'memorial fiasco' was a classic case of Republican psyschological projection. What would the Karl Rove types in that scenario do? Milk it for political gain. So what did they assume the Democrats were doing? Milking it for political gain.

            Anyone with the slightest knowledge of how that ceremony came together knows that the entire thing was guileless, put together without political calculation. Yes, it was a largely unorganized, unscripted free for all. You can either shake your head at their naivete or applaud their lack of cynicism.

            As for Rick Kahn, yes he was difficult to watch. But anyone with the slightest fiber of empathy could see that that man was quite literally deranged with grief. It's to the Republican's everlasting shame that they made him into a political punching bag.

            It's also worth noting that Coleman's margin of victory was less than 2%, about 40,000 votes. Not exactly an epic blowout considering that Mondale had all of week to run in Wellstone's place.

            Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

            by Joe Bob on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:44:47 PM PDT

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            •  Very well said (0+ / 0-)

              It's to the Republican's everlasting shame

              Unfortunately, the Republicans have no shame whatsoever

              When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: "Bush"

              by Mia Dolan on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:11:35 PM PDT

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        •  Very true, Franken talks about this... (0+ / 0-)

          in his book Lies.

          "The only thing I would trust Dick Cheney on is if I had a dead hooker in my hotel room." -Jon Stewart

          by Chris Brock on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:42:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That wouldn't explain why (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KansasLiberal

        a hack like Coleman still holds a lead.  I think fundamental attitudes of Minnesotans must have changed?

        "No matter how cynical you are, you can't keep up." -- Woody Allen

        by robokos on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:16:19 AM PDT

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        •  Education (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Superribbie, Bridge Master

          Inner city schools suck and the Bible-belt schools aren't teaching logic.  Put those two things with the questionable capitalistic ethics of Bachmann's district, and there you have it.  Tax cuts desired by the wealthy, anti-choice desired by the Bible-belt around St. Cloud, and an education system gutted by Arne, Jesse, and this present cluck; there's the explanation.

          Plus, Coleman and Pawlenty don't seem nearly as bad as the idiot Repubs from other states.  We tolerate semi-crap for a long time unless a great motivation comes along to stir us out of apathy (see Boschwitz, Durenberger, et. al.).

          Enslave 10% of America. Save us the shipping charges from China.

          by bwide on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:44:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It might be true (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joe Bob

            that our educational system is not so hot, but I'd be willing to bet that Coleman does better among voters with MORE education, and the DFLers among those with less.  This is how it generally works, unfortunately.  A better answer is probably that the suburbs are growing in MN and the cities are not-- thus more Republican gains.

            •  Probably a nasty combination. (0+ / 0-)

              I know quite a few people who, while despising Bush on social issues, voted for him because it benefited them economically.  

              I do have to imagine, however, that the general degradation of the education system in Minnesota has led to a loss of empathetic and logical voters who would normally go Democrat.  Plus, the northern labor vote probably isn't as helpful as it once was.

              Enslave 10% of America. Save us the shipping charges from China.

              by bwide on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 10:17:47 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  it's the suburbs (0+ / 0-)

              Coleman's core constituency is the suburbs of Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Outstate is mostly a wash. He gets blown out in the cities. In 2002 he won maybe 2 or 3 precincts in Minneapolis and a big fat zero in St. Paul. I remember looking at a map of election results where the Twin Cities metro area looked like a big red doughnut with a blue hole in the middle.

              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

              by Joe Bob on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:49:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Well (0+ / 0-)

          Coleman is perceived as a moderate.  And neither Franken nor Ciresi are strong candidates.  

          When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: "Bush"

          by Mia Dolan on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:02:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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