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View Diary: Signed, Sealed, & Delivered (268 comments)

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  •  Well... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dabize, groggy, andgarden

    ...I tend to disagree often with both on economic matters, but more importantly, those lies and mob mentalities are typically towards the purchasers, not the sellers of financial services.  The sellers typically are in on the scam.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 06:55:55 AM PDT

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    •  Hope you're right (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      groggy, annefrank, Jay Elias, Noor B

      But remember that belief in something comforting sells better than truth to almost everybody, and that Murdoch is one of the main guys driving the inability of Americans to tell the difference......because it makes money for him, but also because it's become a habit.

      Do you really see him breaking this habit?

      The Perfect is the Enemy of the Better

      by dabize on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:03:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dabize, groggy, andgarden

        ...I can't say what Murdoch will or won't do.  I just think that if he practices yellow journalism at the Journal, it is going to cost someone a lot of money.  And the entire industry will hear of it promptly.

        So, if he does his usual on the WSJ, he'll lose his most valuable audience pretty fast.  And possibly make very powerful enemies at the same time.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:06:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll bet that most readers of the WSJ (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KingOneEye, wonmug, Jay Elias

          are "purchasers", even though the most important people are "providers".

          The most valuable people are those who subscribe to the WSJ and like to drink Kool-Aid.

          I figure that it will be the second coming of 1931 before RM and the WSJ really have to pay for distortions - so long as the distortions contain liberal helpings of mindless boosterism for people who invest in the markets.

          I'm no expert on this, BTW......that's just my intuition guided by the light of past observation of RM.

          The Perfect is the Enemy of the Better

          by dabize on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:11:58 AM PDT

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          •  They would have to be purchasers... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dabize, Leap Year

            ...only about fifty thousand people tops are the real powers in financial services.

            I worked for one of the biggest New York hedge funds nine years ago, though.  And those people aren't fucking around.  And they control huge sums of money.  So, my point is that if the WSJ loses them, other people will hear about it.  And if the WSJ isn't the paper trusted by partners at Lehman and Ernst & Young and Smith Barney, what are they?

            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

            by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:17:50 AM PDT

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        •  I think you're probably right, but I think (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dabize, KingOneEye, dianem, wonmug, Jay Elias

          Murdoch's vision is much more sophisticated than simply inserting his yellow journalism for the sake of selling his yellow journalism.  I think he sees an opportunity to control the market and make and break companies at will.

          If you really analyze Murdoch's career, you'll see that he has a habit of destroying - decimating - his "enemies" - but the reason that he is shrewd is that when he creates those voids he is quick and calculating about how he fills them.  He usually fills them with loyalists.  So in the market that can play out in such a way that he is viewed as a leader to be followed in hopes of being on the winning side of his market manipulations.

          So while there may be some who take great losses as a result of his market manipulations, there will be others who will likely win big and they will follow him as a result.  The only way for him to screw that up would be for him to trigger some sort of market downfall that would affect the majority of the players and not be a very big win for anyone even if they gained.

          I think that we are going into an interesting "experiment" here and that we are all going to be Mr. Murdoch's guinea pigs for a while.

          •  Interesting read... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bronte17, inclusiveheart

            ...my initial thought was that this was just a shiny bauble for Murdoch to add respectability to his empire.

            But people like Dick Fuld and Samuel DiPiazza aren't followers.  And they are as big players as Murdoch if not bigger.  If Murdoch is taking them on, it would be unprecedented.  And something to be rather scared of.

            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

            by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:43:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He has the role of king maker in politics. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bronte17, Jay Elias, moosely2006

              It seems the logical extension of his game would be to become a king maker in the markets.

              It is kind of scary imo.

              •  Sure... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                inclusiveheart

                ...but the people who are already kingmakers in that line tend to be jealous of their royal powers.

                The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                by Jay Elias on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 08:04:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There were those in the media (0+ / 0-)

                  universe and the political arena who were at one time standing in his way too, but he managed to amass power in those venues despite the previous kingmakers' objections.

                  The thing that is most frightening about Murdoch is that he is incredibly patient, disciplined and focused on his greater goals.  He is a formidable opponent.

              •  You have that backwards (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                moosely2006

                His goal has always been to become king maker in the markets. Money = Power. Power = Money. Fox is conservative because he saw a niche for a right-wing media empire and he filled it. He didn't create the American distrust of the media, the right-wing did. He simply tood advantage of their strategy and created a flashy channel that would feed the anger of the people who believed in their PR.

                He won't "take on" the biggest players, he'll work with them, the same way he is charming Bill and Hilary Clinton. Everybody will benefit. Well, at least everybody who matters to them. The masses - including you and me - will get screwed. Politics is nothing to Murdoch. Power is what it's about.

                •  I'm not sure that I said that this (0+ / 0-)

                  goal to become a financial kingmaker is something new.  I think I was positing that he has been building his empire over the many years first in media and then in politics and now he is taking the prize in the markets by acquiring the crown jewel in the financial media  I never meant to suggest that this plan was new as much as suggest that the themes we have seen in both the media and political arenas would continue.

                  I would disagree with the assessment of who he will or will not take on.  He will take on anyone who gets in his way.  He is smart enough to engage even his enemies where they can help advance his goals, but he will divest of them the minute he can get something closer to his ideology.  He is btw almost fanatical in his love for Ronald Reagan.  His political ideology can and has eclipsed his quest for money on occasion - the NY Post is a good example.  he loses money on it, but he wants his right wing agenda promoted on a daily basis so he takes the loss.  He is a bit more complex than just power - he is an ideologue too.

                  •  I'm not sure he's an idealogue (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    inclusiveheart

                    I'm sure that what you're saying about Reagan is true, but I don't think that Murdoch loves the right wing political ideals as much as he loves their economic policy of not putting limits on wealth or power. I suspect that when Murdoch promotes a particular party, it's because he believes that he will benefit by promoting that party, not because he actually agrees with their social policy.

                    By the way, I agree with most of what you're saying about Murdoch, and feel that it is very on target. I guess I just interpret his political activity differently. I think that he uses politics to further his economic expanstion, not the other way around.

                    •  I read a really interesting article a while (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      dianem

                      back which was an interview with him and Roger Ailes.  He was surprisingly candid about his devotion to conservative ideology and talked about - also in a surprisingly candid way - how he stuck to the conservative voice at Fox and with shows like The O'Reilly Factor for a long time even when he wasn't making money because he believed in the conservative ideology.  For whatever reason the question of Phil Donahue's firing from CNBC came up in the interview and that was why he started talking about the intersection of ideology and his media empire.  I actually think his belief in conservatism is an important component in his recipe for success.  It is a driver for his long-term vision which is what I think makes him different from your garden-variety business mogul.

                      Around the time I read that article - it was just about the time that he was first talking about his new financial news television network - I had this conversation with my father and I remember saying to him that I wondered what the world would have been like right now if instead of being a committed conservative, Murdoch had been a committed liberal and achieved the media empire that he has achieved.  I wish I could even remember where I found that article.  It was one of the pro media rags, but I can't for the life of me remember which one now.  I think you'd probably find it interesting though.

        •  People believe what they read (3+ / 0-)

          Even rich people. Owning the media is the first step toward owning the minds of a society. I'm not suggesting that Murdoch is trying to take over America. That would be paranoid. He's just trying to dominate us economically.  Fuctionally, that's better than dominating us politically, at least if you want to make lots of money.

          •  Correct. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dianem

                A very powerful 'behind the scenes' individual in our state was asked, in a private conversation, why he wouldn't consider running for the office of governor. He replied "Son, I much rather own the governor than be the governor". When Zombie Reagan was elected president in 1980, William F. Buckley was asked whether he aspired to any post in Reagan's government. His response, "Ventriloquist".

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