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View Diary: Senate Gives in on Wiretapping. 16 Dems Go Along. (789 comments)

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  •  Hard to call some of them Dems (3+ / 0-)
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    Kimberley, Paper Cup, prodigal

    As an older gent, you must cringe when you see crap like this.  I was in my early twenties twenty years ago...  Does the Dem party of today even resemble the Dem party of the 70's and 80's?  In some respects, they can't even be called moderate.  

    •  Well, yes and no. (1+ / 0-)
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      Paper Cup

      There was a time when:

      • a pretty substantial group of liberal Republicans, conservative on "business" issues, but quite progressive on social issues, had a lot to do with the passage of significant chunks of liberal (Great Society-type) legislation
      • a pretty substantial group of conservative (mostly Southern) Democrats fought tooth and nail against the "radicalization" of the Democratic party

      The right-wingers were incredibly successful in shifting the whole country right.  They took the Democratic party with them.  The Democratic party was a lot more left in the 1970s.  It was also not terribly effective (Nixon was elected in 68 because the left wing of the Democratic party tore itself into little bits) and grew increasingly out of touch with "regular" people.  (Of course, everything is mixed and even as it got out of touch with some, it was opening up to women, gays, minorities, even more.  Not all bad).

      Do I cringe?  Not really . . . just sigh.
      The Democratic party is, overall, at least heading back in the right direction.  It'll take a while, mostly because the party will both follow and lead the American people and we haven't yet moved the people away from right-wing mind games.

      "It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten." -- Principal Snyder, BTVS

      by prodigal on Fri Aug 03, 2007 at 11:46:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But (1+ / 0-)
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        It'll take a while, ...

        I don't think we have a while left.

        ***** NO RECESS FOR CONGRESS ******

        by We hold these truths on Sat Aug 04, 2007 at 12:15:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Is there a break point? (1+ / 0-)
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        I don't know, prodigal...  I think the embedded media has affected the political climate more than anything else.  They've become much more aligned with the moderate/right duopoly--particularly those who want endless war in the Mideast.  

        Twenty five years ago, most of the press was lambasting Nixon for his war policy, and the Dems cut off funding for the war.  Can you imagine them giving Tricky Dick more power to tap our phones without warrants?  

        This is why I'm more than just concerned for the future of our country.  Today's predicament seems much more dire, with Bush granting himself greater powers through "Executive Orders" in the event of a "terrorist attack", and the Homeland Insecurity Dept telling us they have "a feeling" there will be another attack soon, and a Dem-controlled Congress giving them a blank check and expanded powers to spy on us.

        What do you think?  Is there a breaking point?  A point of no return?

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