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View Diary: Feminisms: Beyond Belonging (132 comments)

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  •  If you wake up tomorrow and there seems to be (2+ / 0-)
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    rserven, jessical

    a lot of skinny arms and legs waving about, I suggest you roll over and go back to sleep.  These things pass.

    "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

    by JPete on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 10:24:35 PM PDT

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    •  so they say... (1+ / 0-)
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      rserven

      I fear a whole new meaning to "transition"...

      As I recall the rolling over part was an issue.

      I was just rebrowsing here and thought a moment on how the character of the questioner is reflected in the metaphor.  With Franz Kafka, we get Gregor's sad state.  With Tryptamine, we get this incredibly kind analogy about bugs o' destiny, Buber's thou as a beetle.  Well, Robyn made them beetles, which is probably accurate, but I pictured something small and grublike, blind in it's need for cellulose, perhaps emerging to eaten itself, in turn.

      Bedtime :}

      •  I tried to turn it into a silly joke, I think, (3+ / 0-)
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        rserven, plf515, jessical

        because of a different reaction from your generous one.  I was troubled by

        while reading this diary was realizing how good you are at reminding us of how normal you are while still talking about that which makes you different from many of us.  You have an amazing ability to bring out the essence of our shared humanity,

        Not to be critical, but there seem to me pretty important questions surrounding the idea that Robyn is "normal but different."  Perhaps what is shown, for me anyway, is that we don't have a very good vocabulary for describing all this - the usual one is good at marking differences.  Are  similarities a matter of being "normal"?

        Ugh.  This could turn into the sort of debate I had in high school, when we had little idea of what the social pressures acting on us were like.  Mind you, that was a very long time ago.  

        "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

        by JPete on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 09:10:05 PM PDT

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        •  Normal is a word (2+ / 0-)
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          rserven, jessical

          with many denotations and even more connotations.

          "Normal human being" with no further qualification, is a statement so vague as to be meaningless - but this vagueness makes it a good weapon for hateful people.

        •  well... (3+ / 0-)
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          JPete, rserven, plf515

          I took it as meaning that everyone is "normal but different", and an attempt to describe a quality I also see in Robyn's writing -- a sort of approachable, conversational pace.  I tend to see it for the reason that it's not where  I live :}  But I respect it muchly...

          The vagueness mentioned by plf below I think perhaps translates into a simple desire to keep the focus on what the writing does well, above...mileage varies.  

          Speaking for myself as a trans type person, sometimes normal is worth a queen's ransom, and the niceties of definition are irrelevant.  My trans definition is more Edward Albee than anything else: they don't look up.

          •  I see what you mean, I think. I might go a bit (4+ / 0-)
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            tryptamine, rserven, plf515, jessical

            further than you have, and say that Robin's readers can occupy a lot of her point of view - I think that's called "showing the universal themes...".  On the other hand, I've never heard the words "normal...different" used in a very positive way.  I'm sure it wasn't written the way I read it, but alarms go off for me when I heard that said.  Maybe it's the flatness in the way the contrast is put; I've certainly heard similar things said positively.

            "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

            by JPete on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 08:43:45 AM PDT

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            •  well... (3+ / 0-)
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              tryptamine, JPete, rserven

              ...it's all about the text :}  I jumped -- very logically - on some poor kid after the logo debate for a trans joke, and my point was very much that it was all about the text, intent aside.  (When he took the diary down I felt like a rat.  Still do.)

              That said, I can't read this objectively -- based on correspondence, the comment author is in the very tiny group I'd trust to advocate fiercely for me and mine without reservation  onsite or off, and I didn't read it the way you did at all...

            •  I blame language. (3+ / 0-)
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              JPete, rserven, jessical

              It definitely wasn't meant as a bad thing at all.  I meditated over it for quite awhile, knowing that it could come across that way but simultaneously not finding any way to form a truly complete picture of what I really meant; the thoughts were coming more from my heart than my head, but I had only this flawed medium to convey them.

              Class & Labor - Tues. nights, Feminisms Wed. nights

              by tryptamine on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 01:44:24 PM PDT

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              •  Absolutely, it is the language. (3+ / 0-)
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                tryptamine, rserven, jessical

                I tried to say something like that as  this discussion began. Anyway, I really didn't think you were diss-ing trans people; it is the medium that is flawed.

                "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

                by JPete on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 10:02:55 PM PDT

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