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View Diary: 2008: 8/28-30 straw poll results (269 comments)

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  •  Go Barack (14+ / 0-)

    Love that trendline.

    Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

    by zenbowl on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:04:20 AM PDT

    •  It is interesting... (16+ / 0-)

      My guess as to the reason is that he is actually going out on a limb now and taking some risks whereas he was playing it a little safe in the beginning.  People are now seeing him as more of a leader than they were a few months ago after the initial excitement wore off.

      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." -- Thomas Jefferson [-4.25, -5.33]

      by GTPinNJ on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:07:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  or this is an unscientific poll.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buckhorn okie, Mr X

        just saying....

        "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

        by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:08:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes it is... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yoshimi, zenbowl, buckhorn okie, ShadowSD

          but I still think you can get a general sense of trends.

          "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." -- Thomas Jefferson [-4.25, -5.33]

          by GTPinNJ on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:09:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ralph

            ... didn't recognize that it was two months of Edwards moving down and Obama moving up. Maybe people here are finally getting turned off to Edwards because of his rapid, and oftentimes obnoxious, supporters.

            "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

            by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:16:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Speaking of obnoxious........ (5+ / 0-)

              This comment ranks right up there. There are supporters in ALL the camps that can be overly zealous. You do your candidate no favors when you write tripe like this.

              •  Just because every canidate has a few obnoxious.. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jxg, ShadowSD

                ... supporters, doesn't mean that Edwards' cohort of over zealous supporters doesn't vastly outnumber the similar supporters in other camps.

                That said, I don't think this is endemic to Edwards (although I see why rhetoric would enamor such support) but couldn't stand when Obama's supporters went nuts trying to slime the kid who initially started Obama's myspace page.

                "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

                by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:39:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Clearly my spelling is suffering.... (0+ / 0-)

                  canidate=candidate :)

                  "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

                  by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:40:14 AM PDT

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                  •  I rec'd you there, but just remember (0+ / 0-)

                    The only reason there were more obnoxious Edwards supporters is not because Edwards supporters are inherantly more obnoxious, but simply because Edwards had a larger overall group of supporters than anyone by far until recently, so with the same one or two percent of each candidate's supporters  being obnoxious, Edwards would still have ended up with more here because it would have been the percentage of a higher total.

                    So, if your theory is correct about obnoxious supporters turning people off, anyone else who might overtake Edwards in first place in these polls would be just as susceptible to having the most obnoxious supporters at that time.  

                    Any statement beginning with "what I'll do as President" is ALWAYS hypothetical, so why bother running if you think candidates shouldn't answer hypotheticals?

                    by ShadowSD on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 11:50:50 AM PDT

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                •  I could match you (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sherlyle, Predictor, skohayes

                  one for one on obnoxious statements. It's sad that so many people feel they need to slime a particular candidate or its supporters in order to feel better about their candidate and his campaign. I'm not going to pretend to understand it, not one bit. I'd vote for any of our candidates in a heartbeat over any of theirs. Although I have a favorite(Edwards) I can completely see the strengths of Obama and Hillary and understand why their supporters feel strongly that their candidate is the best.

                  •  Hate to break it to you.... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    churchlady, cwaltz

                    .... but I don't have a horse in the race. I too would vote for any Democratic candidate not named Gravel or Kucinich (my voting for these two would depend on who the Republicans put up).

                    I'm looking for someone who can inspire, but who also doesn't always tell us what we want to hear. Democrats tend to be disingenuous with their base on economic issues. Republicans tend to be disingenuous on with the base on social issues. With everyone railing against NAFTA (but not wanting to repeal it!) and promising the moon on a whole host of trade and labor issues, its hard to believe any of the candidates is capable of the necessary truthtelling that I seek. We'll see....

                    "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

                    by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 09:02:45 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Edwards has been honest on economic issues (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MyBrainWorks

                      He's already said that we would run a deficit under him (something I'm not too keen on) and that he'd have to raise taxes in order to nationalize health care. I can't see anything more honest then those assessments without putting a dollar value out there.

                      That said, while I favor Edwards I also think that the others have strengths and have particularly been impressed by some I have heard from Obama. I also think that Kuchinich, while not presidential material, has helped move the dialogue left. I admire Richardson's environmental policy(I particularly like how he incorporated public transit). I think Dodd is a good man who has said alot that I like. I also admire Hill, even as I see the strong opinion she invites as problematic.

                      •  Its the anti-corporate ranting ..... (0+ / 0-)

                        ... and silly name calling that bothers me. Firstly, it feels like a cheap substitute for addressing how he would specifically clean things up unlike other 'Corporate Democrats'. Secondly, its hard to think that he's as serious as he sounds about the issue when he worked for Fortress for a year and scored a ton in contributions from its employees.  

                        I think there are real issues facing middle class America, as evidenced by the insane rantings of Lou Dobbs, the emergence of border vigilantes and the rise of sentiment against outsourcing/trade agreements, etc... Catering to any or some of these tendencies harms any chance at finding a reasonable solution to these problems. Here are some of the more ridiculous contradictions in our (Democrats') economic ideas.

                        We're for fair trade but rail against outsourcing? By any and all measures, outsourced jobs are far less prone to the kind of abuses we're used to seeing because the jobs that are being outsourced require a well educated pool of talent. Its the closest thing to fair trade (of services) that we're ever gonna see.

                        We're for helping developing nations but don't want them doing jobs we're capable of? If anything we should be celebrating the fact that a greater number of people in India, China and other countries are now making money for themselves instead of being dependent on U.S foreign aid (which gets looted by corrupt government officials anyway). Moreover, we create new customers for our products and create more jobs for ourselves in the long run. Plus, its not like advances in technology haven't been laying off people for centuries. A true leader will acknowledge this reality and propose an honest solution for the short term pain people have to bear. Haven't seen one yet.

                        Fair trade will never happen. We can push for reforms in foreign countries, but its unlikely that our efforts alone can bring about change. Isn't Iraq single best argument that real, lasting communal reform can't take place if there isn't a yearning for it. We got rid of a dictator, but its not like there was a surge of democratic sentiment to create a real democracy. The greatest reforms have come through sweat, blood and vicious struggle. People can't just be given democracy. They have to want it. They have to be willing to die for it. People can't simply be given free European-level labor protections. They have to want. They have to be willing to die for it. For any enlightened reforms to last, there has to be popular sentiment and that usually only emerges after a period of abuse.

                        p.s: I'm not saying we're better than the people in other countries. If anything, the nonchalance with which Americans have surrendered they civil liberties tells me that we've lost the lessons of our founders and are no longer worthy of many of out rights.

                        "Party like a rock star, hammer like a porn star, rake like an all-star!"

                        by crazymoloch on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 10:32:30 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, My! (0+ / 0-)

              Don't I feel embarrassed now!

              This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

              by Mr X on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 09:11:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  better "rapid" than slow n/t (0+ / 0-)
          •  It is meaningful ... (0+ / 0-)

            But at best as a barometer of dKos.

      •  Which I think was his plan from the get go (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Yoshimi, LV Pol Girl, dotster, CeeusBeeus

        that way you keep things nice, general and positive at the start, and then you've got a foundation of goodwill to bring out some of your stronger policy ideas.  

        Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

        by zenbowl on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:09:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You can only make a first impression once... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zenbowl, LV Pol Girl

          I think that was the general strategy of the campaign. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people who are political junkies want this election to become a brawl 5 months before the first vote.

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