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View Diary: Unions Matter (182 comments)

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  •  Whatever (0+ / 0-)

    If you're a "syndicalist" maybe you should actually join a union? Ever think about that?

    •  (sigh) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mike Erwin, StageStop

      You assume an awful lot, sir, for someone who has never laid eyes on me . . . .

      By the way, since less than 15% of the US workforce is unionized (the lowest percentage of any industrialized nation), I'd be quite willing to bet that well over half of the people here are not union members.  Indeed, I'd be pretty comfortable betting that less than a third are.

      But to get back to the matter at hand, I'm a little curious as to why I should think that the third and fourth Clinton Administrations would be any better for labor or working people than the first two were -- you know, the ones that gave us NAFTA and "ended welfare as we know it" . . . . ?

      Editor, Red and Black Publishers

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 04:20:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't "assume" (0+ / 0-)

        I know a left-sectarian asshat when I see one -- or read what one types.

        I do give you credit for implicitly conceding the fact that the IWW no longer exists, however.

        •  whatever (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mike Erwin

          I have no desire whatever to engage in a pissing match with you.  We have better things to do.

          All I care about is  --------->  when it hits the fan, which side of the picket line will you be on.  

          If you're on the same side as me, then you're my ally and I welcome your help.

          I pick fights with my enemies, not with my allies.

          Editor, Red and Black Publishers

          by Lenny Flank on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 04:50:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Allies (0+ / 0-)

            If I'm slapping you upside the head right now, it's because I have higher standards that I expect of self-declared radicals. The liberals are wrong about many things, but I don't expect them to be perfect. If you're a radical, you damn sure better be involved in real movements and not flinging ill-informed ideological shit from the outside, and play-acting like you and your six friends are the "real" radicals.

            And I agree in principle about the picketline principle that you elucidate here -- it's just that I'm not so sure about you. You're sitting here mouthing off about how labor law reform doesn't matter, and that unions are just cartels to sell "YOU" to the boss (the kind of talk that I've seen and heard in boss propaganda before). This makes me question whether you've actually organized workers before.

            It pays to know what you're talking about before mouthing off.

            •  um, yeah (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mike Erwin, StageStop

              For about 25 years.  Filed more ULP's than I can remember.  Even won a few NLRB elections.

              I've also done quite a bit of environmental/worker organizing (Sierra Club, Florida Public Interest Group, helped set up the Lehigh Valley Coalition for a Safe Environment to end the practice of using toxic waste as fuel for local cement kilns -- my role was to liaison with the unions involved).  Did a short-term stint as an observer in Nicaragua during the Contra War with Witness for Peace, and did some organizing with the Central America Peace Campaign in Seattle. Helped set up a Pennsylvania chapter of the Guatemala Labor Education Project's boycott of Van Heusen shirts in solidarity with Guatemalan organizers.

              When it comes to activism and organizing, I'm very happy to put my record up against anyone's, anywhere, any time.

              And if you think what I've said is "boss propaganda" . . . well . . .  it ain't.  It's what I've been telling people in every union I've been involved with for the past 25 years.  If the union is not based on the rank-and-file, then it's not a union at all -- it's just an employement agency. Our power doesn't lie in campaign contributions or 'friendly governments' -- it lies in people in the workplace.  We run it.  The boss doesn't.

              And if the union movement continues with its "Save American Jobs" baloney and refuses to organize workers overseas, then the owners will continue to whipsaw us by shipping all our jobs overseas and beating the snot out of us.  We need to organize ALL the workers, everywhere, so that if a guy in the US is getting $15 an hour to do a particular job, then a guy in China who is doing the same job had damn well better be getting the same $15 an hour.

              I see nothing anywhere in any of that to warm the cockles of any boss's heart.

              Editor, Red and Black Publishers

              by Lenny Flank on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 05:24:41 PM PDT

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            •  forgot to mention (0+ / 0-)

              Did some work for Teamsters For A Democratic Union.

              If you want to know why the boss's anti-union propaganda about "corrupt union bosses who sell out their workers while growing fat off of them" is so effective, just ask TDU.  They've seen it all firsthand.

              Editor, Red and Black Publishers

              by Lenny Flank on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 05:30:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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