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View Diary: Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh (430 comments)

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  •  You're very very confused. (none)
    The right try to use the Berg video to justify and excuse American torture.

    Most Americans (but perhaps not you) did not say "Who the fuck cares?" -- rather, they were horrified.  They would be far more horrified at this, as would others who buy into Limbaugh's BS about "frat hazing".  And that higher level of horror would fuel getting to the bottom of who is responsible, not just for doing this, but for allowing it to happen.

    As for painting "our own troops as the bad guys", that's exactly what the Bush admin has done, passing the buck as always.

    •  Not most Americans (none)
      A large minority of Americans think the torture was a good thing.  They support the war and think we need to kick ass in the mideast and they don't really care where, I suppose because they can't tell brown people apart.  This group is represented by such personas as Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage, ect., and by the reckless drivers in pickups adorned with obnoxious bumperstickers like, "Let's Roll!", and "Proud to be an American".  

      Just look at congress.  Where do you think all those hillbilly congresspeople come from?  Who votes for them?  

      I know it not nice to think about, but America is heavily populated with raging assholes, more-so than most other industrialized nations (and non-industrialized, I suppose).  Angry White Males, NASCAR dads, Traditional Values Voters; these are all euphemisms for redneck asshole misogynist racist bigot homophobic bigots who live luxurious lives replete with material possessions, and yet constantly bitch and moan about everything under the sun.

      "In an abstract love for humanity one almost always loves only oneself." --Fyodor Dostoevsky, "Notes From The Underground"

      by Subterranean on Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 10:23:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please (3.33)
        You know, some of the folks with pickup trucks and bumper stickers and such, well.. look at the name, "Traditional Values Voters."  These people have values that they grew up with and that are important to them.  Sometimes a clash of values can be extremely aggravating because you reach a point where communication just breaks down.  

        But I grew up in a hillbilly part of the country and let me tell you, we do not have a monopoly on "raging assholes" by any means.  In my experience we have far, far less of them per capita than Washington DC.  I suppose I've encountered my share of ignorant frat boy asshole guys, but I have no idea which ones are the bigots, which ones are the racists, which ones are the homophobes, and which ones are the race fans.  It's amazing how we can make up what other people think without asking them.  What is your justification for promoting such a crazy stereotype?  

        The emperor has no brains.

        by daria g on Thu Jul 15, 2004 at 12:42:25 AM PDT

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        •  Ever been to Orange Co. CA? (none)
          I guess not. The guilty neo-cons aren't "hillbillies." They come from ever corner of the country.

          I'll just give a quick example I remember from when I lived in SoCal. The Irvine CA police were heard answering to "N.I.I." calls from police dispatchers and other officers. A reporter finally decided to find out what the "N.I.I." call was. After a few weeks of research, he found out what that call was and published the findings...

          It was "N*gger In Irvine."

          •  Hmm (none)
            I didn't say the neo-cons were racist hillbillies.. Perhaps you misread?  I agree with you that these people are found everywhere.

            No, I've never been to Orange County, and from what I've heard it's not exactly first on my list of vacation spots..

            The emperor has no brains.

            by daria g on Thu Jul 15, 2004 at 10:43:08 AM PDT

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        •  DC (none)
          I have lived in Washington, DC for 14 years.  Trust me when I say that the biggest of the so-called raging a-holes in DC are imported.

          Please don't be so quick to pound on DC.  It is literally representative of America.  The real DC is composed mostly of poor African Americans.

          -- Jim

          •  I've lived there too (none)
            In the U District, Petworth, Cathedral Heights, and Glover Park at different times.  I love DC, it's my favorite city in the world and I plan to move back as soon as possible.  Maybe I'll try Shaw or near Chinatown this time, U St is too expensive now.  But I do find that in an urban environment, wherever you go, people are on the whole more quick-tempered and less pleasant than they are out in the country.  The poster above concocted this ridiculous stereotype of "hillbilly" people and blamed them for all the social ills and asshole behavior in this country, which I think is not only highly inaccurate, it's just as bigoted as he claims "they" are.

            The emperor has no brains.

            by daria g on Thu Jul 15, 2004 at 10:35:39 AM PDT

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      •  arithmetic? (4.00)
        If those Americans who think torture is a good thing are a minority, no matter how large, then a majority do not.  Sheesh.

        And even among the groups you named, many do not think that torture is a good thing.  That's why folks like Limbaugh insist that it wasn't torture.

      •  "hillbillies" (none)

        Having grown up with some "redneck asshole misogynist racist bigot homophobic bigots", I can assure you that many of them do not live "luxurious lives replete with material possessions."  Many got an second-rate high-school education, were regularly "whupped" by parents and paddled by teachers and brainwashed into thinking that it was good for them.  Too often, they now do unpleasant and demanding work for low wages with  RAMRBHBs bossing them around.  They watch their children do without college (unless they join the service and nobody whacks them) and often medical care -- forget about braces.  Half their days of rest they lose their morning to some cleric (who may well enjoy a luxurious life) bawling hellfire and obedience at them then demanding a tithe of money for the church.  Politicians and the rich folks on the church board (who pay the pastor) strive to deflect their reasonable anger to a convenient outsider instead of the corrupt politicians, stingy employers and corporate monopolies that cause most of their grief.  

        And we are hardly alone in having large minorities of proto-fascists.  France went 15% for Le Pen, the British National Party has seats in the Parliament, and the Canadian Conservative Party has quite a few wingers in their ranks as well.

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