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View Diary: Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh (430 comments)

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  •  But she wasn't answering me, either. (none)
    Actually, I thought I was pretty clear about hedging my bets on the question of insult.

    Though I'm not sure how else to take the accusations of rigidity and dogmatism. But I don't think they have anything whatsoever to do with the question I asked or the discussion we're having.

    What you've added to the conversation is, again, thoughtful, but not particularly relevant to my question. If we take it as a given that "we are not talking about white noise here," and all the rest, what does that tell me with respect to who it was that was doing the raping?

    Everyone wants to give me a metaphysics lecture, but nobody wants to tell me who did it. They all want to give me the Noam Chomsky treatment about what the meaning of the word "did" is.

    There's a simple answer to the factual question out there somewhere. I'm with ya on the meta. But what are the facts?

    •  on the information (none)
      that's currently available to us here and to the general public, ISTM nobody's answering your question because nobody here knows the answer yet. I think some of us reacted to the speculative part of your post -- the 'what-if' it wasn't Americans who physically perpetrated child rape (just allowed/watched/filmed it) -- and I do understand what I took to be your fear that if so, many Americans would take that as a "get-out-of-jail-free" card. I don't think there are many here who think that is acceptable, but I'm inclined to believe that the 40% would indeed jump at the chance to salve their vestigial consciences this way. Maybe it's a good thing to be forewarned about this possibility, and discuss it in the context of preventing such an idea from taking hold.
    •  I'm at a loss. This happened at Abu Ghraib (none)
      but you don't know whether Americans did it?

      If you want to know how far up the chain of command it went, read Sy Hersh's New Yorker articles, or wait for his book (someone said due in October).  But the news reports on position papers and executive orders on torture and interrogation techniques make it clear that responsibility goes all the way up the chain, to the very top.

      •  Thank you, excellent idea. (none)
        See my response below. It was Sy Hersh's May 17th article in the New Yorker that mysteriously led me to believe that Americans may not have been the ones commiting these acts of sodomy.

        The language is kind of tricky, but I have to admit that I fell for the part where Sy wrote that, "The officials said there also was a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys."

        I can't imagine why I would make such a foolish mistake. In fact, one might say, "I'm at a loss."

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