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View Diary: A Squeak about Trade? (18 comments)

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  •  here's the problem as I see it (1+ / 0-)
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    "your side", for a lack of true support from Democrats and the left is stuck with the "wingnuttery" as allies.

    "my side", for a lack of true support from Democrats and the middle is stuck with the "corprocracy" as allies.

    This is why I have long advocated for a new (pardon the phrase) "third way" of addressing this issue. A coalition of all those adversely effected by US economic policy vis a vis globalization to demand TRUE reform of the immigration system to finally end the system whereby business and corporate interests manipulated and use the immigration system to their benefit..

    While we certainly disagree on what should be an acceptable number, make-up, and  criteria for future legal immigration, I think we are in complete agreement on the unacceptable nature of the current system.

    As I've said over and over again...there is a solution ...we're just not hearing it yet. And we never will as long as those in control can polarize the debate.

    I my be an idealist, but I really believe that a true coalition concerned about the rights of all workers, both US and foreign-born could effect real and meaningful change. A coalition of all those concerned  the effects of global neo-liberal economic policy both here and abroad.

    BUT compromises must be made. Those who want complete unrestricted immigration must accept that regulation and enforcement MUST take place. Likewise those who want a complete shutdown of the borders must accept that a well regulated and run immigration policy can be one of the nation's greatest assets.

    And this could all be accomplished within the ranks the Democratic party and by independent progressives. ...but it will take a new kind of thinking...a new paradigm. We must begin to think out of the box.

    As with many other aspects of our current situation as a nation...we really are at a crucial turning point. We either start to right the ship of state and embrace the values that always set this nation apart ...or we continue on our current path and go the way of empires of the past.

    To me the choice is just that simple

    •  Duke (1+ / 0-)
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      I think maybe we should start a new blog, where we have true Progressives, populists on it to "fight out" immigration reform policy based on this.

      Just plain ban the trolls, corporate representatives and the ones to call everything "Racism" (you know who I"m talking about) as well as the ones who are coming from some sort of discriminatory, "blame the illegal" view point and so forth and encourage those on both sides who can look at the realities and we debate and hammer out solutions.

      I agree with you on a "3rd way" and from what I'm seeing there is so much corporate power, influence, money, we're really going to get hammered, both sides because we have the common points of wanting to raise up social mobility, standard of living, workers rights, market protections and so on.

      Seriously, I can even host another domain and throw up another blog for just this topic.  I never cover immigration generally on our sites but watching election '08 well, Progressives, Economic populists are in real trouble and this is one of the main issues.

      But, yes, I really am agreeing with you and we could probably start by listing the things we agree on and go from there to debate the effects on the things we don't.  

      I'm fairly certain we agree on guest worker Visas being the new slavery system and that the USCIS is royally screwed up, understaffed.

      by BobOak on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 11:50:56 AM PDT

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      •  there may be something in the works (0+ / 0-)

        already along the lines your thinking of. I'll know more in a few more days. But it looks like there is some movement to put together some real internet presence on this issue. I'll keep you up to date.

        •  forget it (0+ / 0-)

          I'm sorry but Lou Dobbs is one of our lifelines...
          this just really is a waste of my time, you could care less about the realities of labor economics, I'm convinced and there is good reason why all of the techies stick with the conservative groups because THEY can STOP THE BILLS.

          by BobOak on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:05:46 PM PDT

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          •  com'on Bob (0+ / 0-)

            I'm convinced and there is good reason why all of the techies stick with the conservative groups because THEY can STOP THE BILLS.

            and how's that been working out so far?

            As to DOBBS, my position has not changed one iota concerning him. He is not the best spokesman for your cause, or any other for that matter. He's simply too divisive and polarizing.

            And BTW, not being a card carrying member of the Lou Dobbs fan club does not preclude one from addressing issues of neo-liberal economics or labor issues. These issues are not Lou's sole domain. As  much as he would like to be the sole and definitive voice for ALL US workers, there are millions of other voices out there to be heard.

            •  this is also extremely offensive (0+ / 0-)

              Why do you keep posting Republicans?  I am a Democrat, everyone in our group is a Democrat, we work on Democratic campaigns and all of the bills we push, work on are Democratic sponsored.

              That insinuation is infuriating for there is no one, anywhere who has worked on any GOP campaign, or anything in our entire group!

              That really, really pisses me off none of us are Republicans, me being the most "left" of the bunch with really being more close to a democratic socialist.  It's positively insulting and once again shows how little is understood about the many Progressives and populists who simply are not open border and it's purely about national interest economics and labor issues.


              by BobOak on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 12:55:15 AM PDT

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          •  BTW (0+ / 0-)

            I find comments like "you speak out of both sides of your mouth" and "you could care less about the realities of labor economics" extremely hurtful.

            If that was in any way true I certainly wouldn't have spend hours on end pouring over legislation looking for the intentional loopholes left there explicitly to replace US professionals with cheap foreign labor.

            You, more than any of the other people on your side,  know full well that I completely understand this issue and have much in common with your cause...but to make Lou Dobbs into some sort of litmus test for labor fidelity leads me to believe that rather than looking for any sort of compromise or common ground, you instead want only strict adherence to your particular point of view.

            and that perhaps saddens me the most, because I was under the impression that we had moved beyond such petty differences...and perhaps could work towards reaching common ground. (sort of like the whole point of my other diary in the first place)    

            •  well (0+ / 0-)

              I find your little gang absurd and hurtful and I especially am pissed that you attack Lou Dobbs for next time you watch the show, check my blog and then watch the show.  You better believe he is one of our best allies and he is NOT a racist and has even mentioned "amnesty" for certain cases.  As far as posting Cornyn on here, almost every group on every political spectrum has him targeted.

              YOU are polarizing this issue by making those sorts of posts which the little gang loves and jumps on.

              I'm so sick oF that because I cannot even post a diary such as this, which is about the dollar potentially not being a reserve currency, GDP, trade has NOTHING to do with immigration, yet here comes the little gang, with no ability to consider statistics, facts, even trade policy!  I'm tired of it for we're about to be creamed, with a major recession AND we happen to know the minute they get those guest worker Visa increases, they are going to be firing thousands of engineers, if not hundreds of thousands...yet here I am in some friggin' blog
              with assholes debating or name calling every piece of information pointing to this coming labor disaster!

              And who reports on this?  LOU DOBBS!

              To make matters worse, I talk not only about H-1B and L-1 but on TRADE, budget deficits, corporate agenda, offshore outsourcing and all of these economic facts get BURIED in your and that gang's constant, constant name calling every friggin' think "racist".  I even got that on a diary about China's unfair trade practices.  It's fucking PATHETIC!


              by BobOak on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 12:24:31 AM PDT

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