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View Diary: LA Times: 1 million dead civilians in Iraq since 2003 (26 comments)

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  •  humanitarian interventionism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joejoejoe

    very interesting podcast on the subject  here.
    Takes a rather different angle than most of us are used to, and is definitely worth a listen.

    excerpt:

    Brendan O'Neil: When you have a situation where world affairs is organized around the principle of international interventionism to rescue victims rather than around the old principle of state sovereignty and you must respect state sovereignty, then you give rise to groups who will try to win that international intervention and that international protection and they will do it by playing the victim; they will do it by saying we’re pathetic, we’re victims of genocide, we’re being tortured, come and look at us being tortured. So it’s built in to the logic of humanitarian interventionism, and that’s one of the most depressing things about it, for me."


    George Kenney: That’s very well said. It makes me wonder... do you think that it’s possible to put the genie back in the bottle? To go back to sovereign states that were inviolable in a sense, or...or do we have to have another Westphalian Convention?

       
    Brendan O'Neil: (laughter)... that is a very good question and I don’t know the answer to that. But I know that something needs to happen. I look at something like Iraq, for example. At the moment there’s a very important discussion going on about the insurgency in Iraq, or the resistance, or the opposition... you know, people have different words for it. And one aspect of the insurgency very much seems to be dedicated to just causing destruction. They plant huge suicide bombs that kill large numbers of civilians, and you have people in the west kind of throwing their hands in the air and saying; what’s going on here? what’s this all about? And I think that’s the kind of violence that takes place in a world that’s no longer structured around state sovereignty, nationalism, the building of governments, the protection of territory from intervention... In the past, when an opposition group wanted to expel occupying forces or develop its own government it would set up a national liberation army that would have a clear agenda, that would take responsibility for their actions, who would fight against the occupying powers and try to get rid of them and then create its own government based on sovereign principles. Today, in a world where those kinds of things have really been shot down over the past fifty years, when sovereignty has been put in the rubbish bin, when everything’s about internationalism, when it’s all about supporting the victim, when you have this really dramatic shift in international affairs you see a situation where’s there’s no longer any clear-cut national liberation movements as there were in the past. Instead, there are these new kinds of victim groups who try to demonstrate victimhood in order to win international support and international protection but which are actually quite destructive and seem intent upon destroying things rather than creating things. So in many ways I think the kind of slaughter we’re seeing in parts of the world now is a kind of unwitting consequence of humanitarianism over the past fifteen years and the way in which humanitarianism dismantled the structures that people adhered to in the past.





    source: Electric Politics

     

    •  oops...typo in my transcription (0+ / 0-)

      probably why i should leave it to the pros...

      anyhow, "Today, in a world where those kinds of things have really been shot down over the past fifty years, when sovereignty has been put in the rubbish bin..." should be "Today, in a world where those kinds of things have really been shot down over the past fifteen years, when sovereignty has been put in the rubbish bin..."

      sorry about that...

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