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View Diary: One Million-Plus Violent Iraqi Deaths (So Far) (219 comments)

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  •  certainly we can agree that (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Inky, Boorad, gnat, Empower Ink

    it is happening. That is the first step. That is what I think is so important at this point. The lying has to stop. The facts are the facts.

    Beyond that, the analysis will advance. And yes, we are killing many if not most of these people. The majority have been women and children. We are still using air strikes in an occupied country.

    Why is the man/men who made this happen still in power?
    If everyone knew the real numbers, would Bush Cheney remain in office? To turn the Pottery Barn meme on its head, "if you broke it, should you be hired as the manager of the store?"

    There are lots of unaswered questions. But let's get real on the stuff we know.

    fouls, excesses and immoderate behaviors will not be ignored at Over the line, Smokey!.

    by seesdifferent on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 03:29:52 PM PDT

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    •  "It" (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to.  I don't think the US is perpetrating a genocide in Iraq.  Despite fully embracing the position that our invasion and occupation was the catalyst to whatever we chose to call the chaos in Iraq, thus meaning that we have a significant share in the responsibility for the deaths occurring in Iraq, even though our forces may not be directly causing those deaths, I'm not sure what's happening in Iraq is a genocide.  But I'm also not sure it isn't; it's not a clear-cut case.  That's my quibble.  But yeah, there's no disputing that, even if this poll is deeply flawed, there's still plenty of evidence to suggest that the death toll in Iraq is in the mid to high hundreds of thousands, and the claims of the US Govt about civilian deaths in Iraq are a sham.

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by Dana Houle on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 03:37:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the IT is how many have died and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Inky

        are dying every day. I'm not talking about what is or isn't genicide. I'm talking about getting square with that million number.

        The studies are not "flawed," they are THE BEST AVAILABLE ESTIMATE. that is the point. a million is the right/best number.

        People who arbitrarily choose some lesser number are not just wrong and ignorant, they are enabling these liars who run this country.
        Please show me your evidence that causes you to use the estimate

        mid to high hundreds of thousands,

        The fact is, there isn't any. So please don't use it. Please use the best numbers, not those that enable Bush and Cheney. Are we afraid to say the numbers, like the media? the numbers are not wrong, they are not flawed. They are correct. Read the Lancet studies linked in my diary today.

        fouls, excesses and immoderate behaviors will not be ignored at Over the line, Smokey!.

        by seesdifferent on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 03:48:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Illogical (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonK Seattle

          Let's say this is the best study available.  How does it follow that it's flawless?  That makes no sense.

          And I'm not afraid of numbers.  I value accuracy over your desire to come up with the worst numbers that hurt Bush.  I'd much rather have accurate numbers that are lower and hurt Bush less than accurate numbers that hurt Bush more, but which also means more people died.

          And if you say there's no flaw, read the Lancet study, AND the numbers in this diary--which conflict with the Lancet study--then that makes no sense either.

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by Dana Houle on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 03:54:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How do the new numbers conflicty with the Lancet (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Inky

            study?

            The new numbers seem to roughly reflect the additional deaths since the Lancet study.

            This poll is methodologically less robust than the Lancet study, but that doesn't mean it is "flawed." If it has a higher margin or error we should remember that that is just as likely to indicate an underestimate as an overestimate.

            Build the Iraq Moratorium Fri., Sept. 21!
            "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral

            by Christopher Day on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 04:31:10 PM PDT

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            •  1 Million Doesn't Equal... (0+ / 0-)

              ...1.2 million (extrapolated from 650,000).  And I'm not asserting it's flawed, I'm saying it's ridiculous to assert that by saying it's the best that ergo it's unflawed.  That's a fairly basic point you would have grasped if you were more concerned with reading what I wrote instead of trying to strut around showing that you're more morally pure than anyone else.  

              The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

              by Dana Houle on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 09:18:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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