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View Diary: Thank you Hillary for calling Petraeus a liar! (132 comments)

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  •  "wiling suspension of disbelief," (5+ / 0-)

    She didn't call him a liar directly, just as moveon didn't call him a "traitor".

    Small details but very important.  I commend her for questioning his sincerity, especially when all the information that was provided to support his testimony is available to everyone and clearly has been doctored to fit the picture they want to paint.

    The president taking credit for this withdrawal is like taking credit for gravity. - John Edwards

    by Ellinorianne on Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 09:05:50 AM PDT

    •  Betray & traitor - different forms of same word (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daisycolorado, Maynards Guest

      Give me a break. They are the verb and noun forms of the same word.

      be·tray
      Etymology: Middle English, from be- + trayen to betray, from Anglo-French trahir, from Latin tradere -- more at TRAITOR

      trai·tor
      Etymology: Middle English traytour, from Anglo-French traitre, from Latin traditor, from tradere to hand over, deliver, betray, from trans-, tra- trans- + dare to give
      1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty

      At this point, the anti-war movement has forfeited its right to duck questions of its own patriotism.

      •  You missed the point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maxomai

        When headlines declare such things, they imply the EXACT word is used.  Just because they are related does not mean they are interchangable, they have different conotations to me.

        The average American is not an Etymologist and your point is beyond ridiculous.  Just that you had to post meanings to make it proves my point.

        For those who only read headlines it's very misleading.

        The president taking credit for this withdrawal is like taking credit for gravity. - John Edwards

        by Ellinorianne on Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 10:17:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Still the same word... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          daisycolorado

          And any American not locked into the MoveOn.org mindset knows that MoveOn just called General Petraeus a betrayer, i.e. a traitor.

          I posted the dictionary meanings to prove my point, because I know that in the Kos world things must be spelled out in the minutest detail if they are not politically correct.

          MoveOn.org has done some clear damage to itself and to the Democratic Party.  Instead of pondering the mistake, this Kos diary, typically, celebrates it.

          Guiliani already has a hard-hitting ad against Hillary using this material. It won't affect die-hard Kos folks but it will work with swing voters.

          •  And a new MoveOn ad hitting Guiliani, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            maxomai, JamieG from Md

            yet another draft-evading chickenhawk BTW, will be out on Monday.

            MoveOn succeeded in not allowing Petraeus to parade around like some unchallenged untouchable holy man.

            •  By all means continue... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              daisycolorado

              ...your strategy of character assassination. I think it will play well to swing voters.

              I understand that you rabidly dislike many people who support the Iraq War.  What surprises me is that you believe broadcasting your meanness so stridently will attract voters outside your choir.

              Perhaps you're right.

              Nonetheless, I'll put my money on the decency of most Americans to give General Petraeus a hearing, even if they disagree with him, and recognize that he has the best interests at heart of the country which he has served--even if, as some people assess these complex matters, they consider him mistaken.

              •  As a military brat (0+ / 0-)

                who grew up on bases, I could not agree with you more.

                I don't agree with what Petraeus said, but I do think he is trying to do the best job in a very bad situation. To call him a traitor is just plain wrong.

                •  Agreed! (0+ / 0-)

                  The Iraq War is a tough call. I didn't come to my position easily. I understand that decent, informed citizens may come to different conclusions than mine.

                  What I don't understand is the tendency to attack the character or the intellect of Americans with whom we disagree. I don't think that's right. I don't think it's helping.

          •  That's just it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            maxomai

            Politically correct?  What does that have to do with this?  It's a matter of word choice.  And he took reports and "cherry picked" information which was MISLEADING.  So?

            Rudy has not right to be speaking about character assassination.  He's blamed many of his own failings on people who worked below him.  We don't need more of that.  He only likes to credit for when things go right, not when they go wrong.  I've had enough of that bullshit.

            The president taking credit for this withdrawal is like taking credit for gravity. - John Edwards

            by Ellinorianne on Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 05:26:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's not politically correct to notice that... (0+ / 0-)

              It's not politically correct to notice that Betray and Traitor are essentially the same word, as you have demonstrated.

              The data for the Iraq War are many and complex. I suspect that what you are saying is that General Petraeus didn't cherry pick the data you thought he should.

              In my posts here I am speaking of character assassination, not Guiliani.  I consider saying that General Petraeus is betraying his country and is therefore a traitor to be character assassination.

              And of course, gopher's additons of liar, whore, toady, etc. are more of the same.

              They don't have a place in civil, rational debate. Furthermore, I think such attacks hurt the anti-war movement, which I find odd, though having read DK for a few years now, I've become accustomed to it.

    •  Small details don't matter (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jarhead5536, JamieG from Md

      Rule one: if you do something good, they'll turn it into something bad.

      Rule two: if they can't find anything real to hit you with, they will just make shit up.

      I can't believe people here are actually criticizing HRC for what the Republicans are saying about her.

      •  She did her job as a Senator (0+ / 0-)

        by questioning his assertions.  If they didn't want him questioned than they should have given a written report.  They also should have had him sworn in, but that would mean he was lying under oath.

        I'm not criticizing her, but you are right, it's mind boggling.

        The president taking credit for this withdrawal is like taking credit for gravity. - John Edwards

        by Ellinorianne on Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 05:29:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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