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View Diary: Iran is not dangerous (but Sarkozy is) (198 comments)

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  •  Nothing here... (0+ / 0-) any evidence whatsoever of Israeli involvement with the MEK.  All you have is evidence that AIPAC and American neoconservatives hold the view that the MEK could be good for Israel.

    And I did not deal with the Kurdish question intentionally.  It is far too complicated to be dealt with by me presently.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 03:21:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  in comparison to "evidence" of Iranian "threat", (0+ / 0-)

      this is actually quite a lot. I don't know if you missed it but there are reputable people saying that Israel provided MEK with intelligence on nuclear facilties.

      Scott Ritter, a former intelligence officer and nuclear weapons inspector is on the record saying: "MEK has the support of Israel."

      I don't know what kind evidence you are looking for. But this is considered strong by normal standards.

      Secondly, you are right that there are a lot of AIPAC connected pro-Israel American groups who are also supporting MEK, but if the past is any indication, this is likely with the blessing of the Israeli government. One can at least say with certainty that if Israel-proper wanted to distance itself from these efforts, it could easily do so publicly.

      •  Are you kidding me now? (0+ / 0-)

        You think that the statement by a single person, no matter how credible, that an organization has the "support of Israel" measures well against the evidence of cash payments, direct training, and arms shipments to Hezbollah and Hamas by Iran?  The direct evidence of which goes back over more than twenty years?

        If everything you suggest of Israeli involvement with MEK was true, which I doubt, it would still be a far more recent and less direct relationship.

        And to your last point, Israel of course could distance themselves from the American neocons if they wanted.  But, regarding Iran, what exactly is the possible benefit to Israel for doing that?  Indeed, the possible positive outcomes for Israel of the US-Iranian dispute is either to have the US attack Iran for them, or to have the threat of US action encourage the other Security Council members to take a more strict stance on Iran.  What is the possible positive outcome for Israel in distancing themselves from anti-Iran elements in the US?

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 04:01:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Israel/US are supporting anti-Iran terrorists (0+ / 0-)

          I'm sorry, there really is no way around it. No amount of plausible deniability will change the facts.

          •  Of course they are.... (0+ / 0-)

   simply cannot find a single article which confirms this beyond an unsourced statement by Scott Ritter.  But that is the case with many things that are absolutely true.

            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

            by Jay Elias on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 11:08:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, if you don't want to see it, can't help you (0+ / 0-)

              I don't understand why you keep denying this. Scott Ritter is a source, and a credible one so I'm not sure what "unsourced" means in your sentence.

              Here's Reza Aslan saying the same thing:

              It is true that the MEK has been a major source of U.S. intelligence on Iran’s clandestine nuclear activity. Some of that intelligence, including information on Iran’s nuclear program at Natanz, seems to have originated with Israeli intelligence services, who then filtered the information to the US through the MEK.

              Here's again, the reasoning for the direct cooperation provided by a top MEK expert:

              MA: Your claim that there were no direct contacts between the MEK and the pro-Israel lobby is undermined by the organization's intensive and very direct cooperation with the "Iran Policy Committee", which seems to be a spin off of AIPAC. There are also regular media reports alluding to direct MEK-Israel ties.

              MB: I would not be surprised if these links existed. As I said earlier, the MEK is exclusively motivated by the interests of the cult, and as such it will cooperate with any constituency. If there is any hesitation in collaboration, it stems from Israeli reluctance, since the Mujahideen, because of its close relationship with the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization], is not fully trusted by the Israelis. On the other hand, from an Israeli perspective, the MEK is the only viable tool against Iran.

              here's Reese Ehrlich:

              Secretly, U.S. intelligence services are also sponsoring armed attacks within Iran. I discovered the U.S. and Israeli support for PJAK in Kurdistan and from so-called former MEK members. The U.S. asks a Mujahedin-e Khalq Organisation (MEK or MKO) member if they have left and if they support democracy. If they answer yes, they can be trained and armed for clandestine actions inside Iran.

              Also, there is also the previous PEJAK evidence which I provided.

              Look, I get it. "Israel does not support terrorism," that's your line and you're sticking to it. I understand. I have provided pretty solid evidence by experts in the field. If you wish to continue, please tell me why you believe any of the 3 men are lying.


              •  I did not say Israel doesn't support terrorism... (0+ / 0-)

                ...nor would I.  Israel was instrumental in supporting Hamas during its origins, and has supported several groups in Lebanon which could be considered terrorists.

                But what you are citing continues to be the opinions of certain individuals, but no explanation of what they mean, nor any clear evidence of any action or activity.  Saying "I would not be surprised if these links existed" is not evidence of actual existing links.

                The case you are making has less specifics than the case the Bush administration made that Iraq was cooperating with al-Qaeda.  I'm sorry if I have a higher standard than that.

                The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                by Jay Elias on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 03:17:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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