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View Diary: Anybody here see Ahmadinejad speak to National Press Club? (151 comments)

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  •  You mean like Gandhi? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hypersphere01, Terra Mystica

    And Benjamin Franklin?
       It's too easy and pretty childish to call all politicians constant, irredeemable liars.

    I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

    by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 10:36:18 AM PDT

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    •  I didn't say that he was... (1+ / 0-)
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      dougymi

      ...a constant or irredeemable liar.  I said that he spoke with a purpose and an awareness of his audience.

      Ghandhi and Franklin may not have told many lies, but they certainly knew their audience.  And knew how to appeal to them.  Franklin wasn't a famous newspaper and almanac writer due to his unvarnished truth telling.

      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

      by Jay Elias on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 10:43:14 AM PDT

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      •  You said: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cpresley

        "The saying 'How can you tell a politician is lying - his lips are moving' is true always, not merely with American politicians."

        To me, that means that all politicians are constant and irredeemable liars, according to you.

        I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

        by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 10:50:27 AM PDT

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        •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

          ...constant I think is true.

          I dunno what "irredeemable" means in this context.  But I have not the slightest bit of doubt that all politicians around the world lie with regularity and aplomb.

          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

          by Jay Elias on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 10:51:55 AM PDT

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    •  Would either Gandhi or B Franklin consider (0+ / 0-)

      themselves politicians?  I doubt it.

      And how are you defining politician?  Someone in government? (neither of those men were and hence by that definition, not liars)

      •  Gandhi said he was, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dougymi, MarketTrustee, Terra Mystica

        during the anti-British campaign in India. Was the term already coined by Franklin's time? I think Franklin was, in the modern sense.

        I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

        by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 11:24:08 AM PDT

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        •  Gandhi (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cpresley, Terra Mystica

          on his own situation:

          "Men say I am a saint losing himself in politics. The fact is that I am a politician trying my hardest to become a saint."

          I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

          by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 12:14:31 PM PDT

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        •  Franklin didn't play for votes (2+ / 0-)
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          roseeriter, NogodsnomastersMary

          but he did pander for public opinion, both here and in France. Not known for Lincolnesque honesty, but even Lincoln wasn't known for that in his time. Franklin was most definitely a politician.

          A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

          by dougymi on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 12:33:10 PM PDT

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          •  Franklin did so (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dougymi

            with great charm and wit, however, dougymi. I find it remarkable that an aging envoy in a coonkin cap could have so swayed the French court-- especially the females.

            I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

            by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 01:06:23 PM PDT

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