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View Diary: DCCC fails Schrader (317 comments)

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  •  I understand ... (4.00)
    why some may think that Markos is over-reacting here. But he is right that the DCCC spokesperson left a perfect opening for the journalist he was talking to to speculate about a lack of support for Schrader within the party. That kind of thing can be devestating to any candidacy.

    This is not varsity play here. This is the big leagues. I can understand mistake, but I can't forgive them when so much is at stake.

    Ancient Chinese curse: May you live in Interesting Times

    by Chris Andersen on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 12:51:30 AM PDT

    •  I'd be willing to wager (2.50)
      Greg knows more about the "big leagues" than just about anyone on this board.

      Reading waaaaay too much into this article.  At worst, the DCCC folks above Greg's head may be talking about replacements.  If so, what's he supposed to say?

      He did what you are supposed to do as a press person -- ignore the question.

      The United States of America: Walk the Talk

      by Velvet Revolution on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 01:03:53 AM PDT

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      •  c'mon (3.33)
        How about "she's a great lady", or "a good Democrat", or a "fine candidate". How does this compromise him in anywy, regardless of what the big-wigs are cooking up? It's just shitty, Velvet, and shows a lack of respect to Ginny and her supporters.

        Oh, and what do you suppose may be going on when you point out that "...the DCCC folks above Greg's head may be talking about replacements"?

        That's another reason why those guys fall flat so often -- they talk instead of listen and then do whatever they want.

        The best intentions in the world, placed on a shelf, are worthless.

        by chuco35 on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 03:00:42 AM PDT

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        •  Who should they listen to? (2.66)
          Should they listen to sound public opinion research and experts with experience assessing candidates and races

          or

          should they listen to anonymous internet denizens who contribute 1% of the funding needed to win a race like this, don't live in the district and have never met Ginny, never seen her record, never seen her speak and don't know why she only got 35% the last time she ran?

          Personally, I hope they listen to group A.

          •  Gee, or maybe they should listen to the voters... (3.66)
            ... i her district who elected her to run in the primary.

            Or are you among the "fuck democracy" crowd?

            •  I agree with both of you (none)
              The party leaders should have listened to all of that advice before the Democratic primary. My guess is that they did just that and the advice was "we don't have a shot".

              But somebody stood up and ran. Apparently, with at least the local Dem party's backing. She won. She is the Democratic nominee. For this to be a democracy, the Dems need to back her.

              Anything else is just power politics and effectively turns the US into an oligarchy bordering on plutocracy.

              My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

              by Bill Rehm on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:21 AM PDT

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        •  Again (none)
          You dont' know that he didn't say those things.  As a matter of fact, knowing Greg as a I do, I can be damn certain he threw out just those sorts of platitudes.  They don't always get in the story though.

          My point about higher ups is that here we are slamming the press guy when we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  He's not there to give his opinion, he's there to say what the DCCC wants.  If there is a move afoot, hypothetically, to engineer a new candidate -- right or wrong -- Greg is going to be told to play it on safe and don't say too much.

          What I have railed against is the trashing of a Democratic staffer who has done more for this party and its candidates than pretty much everyone here.

          The United States of America: Walk the Talk

          by Velvet Revolution on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 10:03:15 AM PDT

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          •  Priorities (1.66)
            "What I have railed against is the trashing of a Democratic staffer who has done more for this party and its candidates than pretty much everyone here."

            So what if a good staffer is being unfairly trashed.  So what if the entire DCCC is being unfairly trashed.

            Didn't you hear Kos is going to be on Air America tonight with Schrader?

            Don't you know a bunch of $10.01 contributions will be sent in today that get traced back to Kos?

            It sounds to me like you care more about the Democratic Party than you do about Kos.  I think you need to sort out your priorities...

            •  Petey, Here's an Example of Your Problem (none)
              You made plenty of good points on this and other threads dedicated to this affair, but you just don't know when to stop with the invective or snide insults.  I happen to think Markos overreacted here, and I don't think it's wrong to criticize him or even suggest some less than flattering motives (although I don't agree with that part of your argument).  But you just can't fucking stop, can you?  

              You've made good points, some of which I believe are wrong, others dead on, and almost all well-argued and reasonable.  But then you go a piss it all away with the personal attacks.  It pisses me off because I generally like reading your arguments, but every time you get personal like this just about everyone, understandably, stops paying attention to you.

              You aren't the jester here, you don't have to lard up your insights with insults of the king.  Make your points, quit attacking people personally, and you'll be more respected and more listened to.

              •  Re: Petey, Here's an Example of Your Problem (none)
                "You made plenty of good points on this and other threads dedicated to this affair, but you just don't know when to stop with the invective or snide insults."

                Sure.  Guilty as charged.

                -----

                It's funny.  Yesterday, before l'affair DCCC broke, I was on a thread where a couple of folks were insisting I was a newer, better Petey than I was a year ago.

                I kept disagreeing with them, saying:

                "I'm tellin' ya.  I'm still the exact same pugnacious strategery guy I was a year ago.  I still show insufficient patience for the sub-mental.  My personality and posting approach haven't really changed."

                My only quibble with your charge:

                "But then you go a piss it all away with the personal attacks."

                I don't think I've gotten personal with any other posters.  I have been extremely critical of Kos' behavior.  But if my basic take on what has just happened is right, I don't think it's unjustified criticism.  And I've tried to restict my criticism to the matter at hand.

                "Don't know where to stop" - I plead guilty.

                "Personal attacks" - I plead innocent.  (though I'm sure I mistep even on this count from time to time...)

    •  Consider this (3.25)
      Markos isn't over-reacting. He isn't reacting in the literal sense. He's taking a position, a carefully considered and principled position. Kos is now a public figure with a good deal of influence, and he chooses to exercise that influence in every post.

      I just got back from the Stakeholder blog where I dumped a big bucket of flaming rhetoric in the comments. In doing so, I'm taking a position, one that could be construed as "our Internet activists are really up in arms about not dumping Schrader." Over here, where I'm just another Kossack, I can speak more reasonably; over there, where I'm one of only 20 commenters or so, I speak for maximum effect. When kos posts to the main board, he's speaking for effect -- one reason why he toned down the language in the original post, I suspect.

      Sometimes it looks like kos shoots from the hip, but I suspect he's got a laser sight.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
      Ow, my blog.

      by Corax on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 07:05:48 AM PDT

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      •  good point (none)
        You can't interpret kos's strong reaction without considering his prominent role as an advocate for the netroots. I think he is, in part, staking out turf and trying to show some muscle. That's why he was so angry that raising about $20,000 in about 12 hours (not over the whole campaign, but in 12 hours) was ignored and on one at the DCCC gave a thought to how people at Kos, TPM, Atrios, and elsewhere would react. It's not about "ego" alone, as a gilas girl and others seem to think, but about increasing the role of interactive online participation in progressive politics.

        Still, there was something a little out of control about the first post, which is why Kos edited it.

        Don't understand NY politics? Try The Nor'Easter

        by jd in nyc on Tue Jul 20, 2004 at 09:21:47 AM PDT

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