Skip to main content

View Diary: UK Rejects Academic Boycott of Israel (110 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

    We boycott just about everybody we don't like academically.

    It is time to consider Israel occupation the same as South Africa apartheid regime.

    The main point of US boycott of course is weapons, massive amount of free money and technology transfer.

    Israel will not be able to keep up its military aggression without US trade.

    Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

    by fugue on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:15:07 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Who do we boycott academically? (11+ / 0-)

      I would say that all academic boycotts are stupid, even against apartheid South Africa.  

      The exception would be conferences that involve weapons and so on.  

    •  Uh, no (9+ / 0-)

      We boycott just about everybody we don't like academically.

      The Bush administration makes it harder for scholars of some nations to attend conferences here, which is reprehensible. But that is not a policy of American academia or the AAUP, the American Association of University Professors.

      The rest of your stuff isn't worth replying to.

      If Venus is made of ketchup and lions play pinochle, why doesn't the framistan frizzmaz the flomaton?

      by zemblan on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:22:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Collective punishment? (22+ / 0-)

      The Israeli academy is the sector of Israeli society that is most vocally critical of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians. An academic boycott punishes those people who are our best hope for sane policy.

      Academic boycotts are also contrary to the most fundamental tenets of scholarship. The free and open exchange of ideas doesn't stop at the border of a country you don't like.

      Nor should it.

      •  what? (0+ / 0-)

        you are against collective punishment now? I don't see you crying when Israel starts bombing everybody or locking the ghetto, because it feels hurt.

        Most fundamental tenet of scholarship is humanity and asking "why".  Obviously these things either don't exist in Israel or has zero effect since same things keep happening.

        Here is a question:

        1. do you think Israel is a military regime or not? (ie. is there such thing as free election outside pre determine military leaders) If not, how come it has only rightwing military leaders?
        1. if so, what is the structure that prop such power elite? Isn't it time to dismantle them? Or at least Not supporting a system that keep killing people.
        1. More importantly: a personal question to you.: Is what Israel doing is right or wrong. Do you support it? What concrete step can you take? Are you informing yourself honestly?

        Remember this is not some cute philo 101 question. People are dead by the thousands.

        Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

        by fugue on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:37:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, you don't see me crying? (15+ / 0-)

          How would you know what I do? How many times have I written here about how much I disagree with Israel's policies toward the Palestinians? I don't talk much about what specifically I do here because folks like you have a tendency to jump to conclusions like the ones you just made, and I have neither the patience nor the desire to deal with such nonsense.

          But since it seems you don't care about that fact and you just want to rely on straw men to attack me, how about this: aren't you a hypocrite if you don't also demand an academic boycott against the US for the Iraq war? Against Zimbabwe for Mugabe's policies? Against North Korea for violating human rights left and right? Against Myanmar for denying that human rights exist in the first place? Against Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and a few dozen other countries for their policies of putting to death LGBT folks? Against Russia for Putin's return to Soviet-style repression? I could go on...

          And aren't you a hypocrite if you are opposed to collective punishment against the Palestinians, almost none of whom have done anything to deserve any punishment at all, but you favor it against Israeli academics, almost none of whom have done anything to deserve any punishment at all?

          •  Let's go further (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arielle, wiscmass, MBNYC, GoldnI

            let's all boycott everyone who does anything bad!  

            Oh wait..... then we'd all be alone.  

          •  Boycott them all... (0+ / 0-)

            unless there's no cause.

            aren't you a hypocrite if you don't also demand an academic boycott against the US for the Iraq war? Against Zimbabwe for Mugabe's policies? Against North Korea for violating human rights left and right? Against Myanmar for denying that human rights exist in the first place? Against Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and a few dozen other countries for their policies of putting to death LGBT folks? Against Russia for Putin's return to Soviet-style repression?

            The U.S.? What I can I say?

            "Yeah, yeah, yeah...we killed or caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands possibly in the million of Iraqis. And if it wasn't for us, a coupla millions of them wouldn't be sittin' as refugees in countries that don't want you. Hell, we don't want you. And yes, we detain the innocent and the child. Okay, okay. Some of them are tortured and raped. And too, we are seriously considering a Round Three. But boycott? That's extreme. It isn't fair. Don't you see that this is collective punishment against Americans. No American dies, of course, but still. It's the principle. This boycott would be a grave hardship for us. Dammit, there's a conference coming up soon. We're told pastries are being catered. Pastries for God's sake!! But, most of all, no one will know how intelligent we think we are."

            Man, the level of outrage regarding this boycott is frankly, ridiculous. And that this boycott is actually described as 'collective punishment' is doubly so.

            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

            by callmecassandra on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 08:21:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Let's put it this way (0+ / 0-)

            Israel is so depended on US money and military technology, they can't even win a war against hezbollah 20 miles out of the border on their own feet.

            And you want to talk about 25% of military budget and almost all of advance military hardware?

            gimme a break. Israel won't exist longer than 8 years without US money.

            Nevermind Syria and Iran, Israel won't be able to win war against Jordanian army if they have a border war.

            Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

            by fugue on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:27:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So your pipe dream now is (0+ / 0-)

              that the US is going to stop supporting Israel?

              Given the broad, deep, and long-lasting support for Israel among the American people, you might think twice about holding your breath on that one.

              If Venus is made of ketchup and lions play pinochle, why doesn't the framistan frizzmaz the flomaton?

              by zemblan on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:32:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I don't believe in boycotts (7+ / 0-)

      that interfere with the right of people to talk to each other. It's profoundly in opposition to any concept of enlightenment and I am glad to hear that this did not succeed. One does not need to be on one side or the other in the Israel- Palestine conflict to recognize that victimizing individual academics for the situation is wrong. By the same token, I would defend the right of any Palestinian to be free to travel anywhere in pursuit of the same thing. I am reminded that British scientists and philosophers traveled freely to Paris at the height of the Napoleonic Wars to present papers and to meet with their colleagues. We must have advanced a little in 200 years, surely?

      Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

      by Batfish on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 03:56:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  boycott (0+ / 0-)

        The essence of boycott is:

        You don't help/be an accomplice to somebody else crime.

        If what we do help sustaining what Israel is doing. (lots of people die, suffers) Then we are in it.

        Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

        by fugue on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 04:02:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's your problem. (0+ / 0-)

          Most here, and elsewhere, don't "boycott" anything.

        •  Well you could look at it the other way (0+ / 0-)

          Boycotting Israeli academics would help the Palestinians who have also murdered innocent people for many years. If you are opposed to murder and oppression, you should noot do anything to help either side.

          Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

          by Batfish on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 09:04:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  spare me the fake talk. (0+ / 0-)

            oh what a crock. stop the fake tear. Nobody buys your concern about "palestinian"

            here is why academic boycott is important:

            1. data. That means Israel cannot easily get a whole lot of academic data and how to interpret them (anything from sociology, electronics, all the way to nuclear and biochemicals. Let alone industrial processes.)

            Israel have to generate all those data and expertise to interpret them alone.

            1. Equipments. No more access to world class academic equipments. How many electron microscope that Israel has? (that's just basic, we are not talking about accelerator or world class equipments)
            1. That means no more money for Israel university, followed by industry.

            All this must be sustained until Israel seeks peaceful solution.

            Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

            by fugue on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 10:51:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The academic boycott is dead. Get used to it. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              livosh1

              No point in regurgitating the talking points in support of a policy that turns out to have been illegal anyway. Not just illegal, but futile.

              Since there was never any danger of the US participating in any academic boycott, there was no reason to expect Israel to have been shut out from acquiring any research data. Same with high-tech equipment; in order for your pipe dream to work out, you have to presume that the US would go along with the boycott, which is your basic snowball's chance in hell.

              The South Africa analogy fails. It fails as fact, and it fails as strategy. The sooner you stop chasing after it, the sooner you can start helping, rather than hindring, peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

              If Venus is made of ketchup and lions play pinochle, why doesn't the framistan frizzmaz the flomaton?

              by zemblan on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:05:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It hasn't even begun yet (0+ / 0-)

                current Israel strategy:

                1. thuggery. slam everybody that talks about any peaceful boycott. (cause they know if it gets started, they gonna get hurt bad.)  So if you observe, it's all over the place, pressuring people, letters, money power, etc. etc.  Give it time, the bad behavior will catches up sooner or later as academias simply sick getting pushed around by Israel rightwing thugs.Try shutting up everybody.
                1. second. Trivialization. (Oh it's just academic. it really doesn't matter, it won't work. can we move on please)

                .. I am here to informed you, you can only sustain unjust act so far. Before the backlash hit you bad.

                You have to push the world ever harder, until one day everybody say enough.

                You have to start killing everybody and use force to  hold what you are doing.

                Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

                by fugue on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:18:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Current Israel strategy: (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  arielle

                  Watch attempt after attempt at boycott fall to pieces like a facial tissue in the rain.

                  Then watch tough-talking tough-talkers talk toughly about how next time's a-gonna be different.

                  Then repeat step one.

                  If Venus is made of ketchup and lions play pinochle, why doesn't the framistan frizzmaz the flomaton?

                  by zemblan on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:25:47 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Israel == South Africa (0+ / 0-)

                just because you try to deny it doesn't mean it is not  happening.

                How are those "fences" going? Road blocks?

                Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

                by fugue on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:20:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Well, actually, you're right in the sense (0+ / 0-)

              that I think both sidesz are wrong, and both sides can go fuck themselves. I was really making the argument that you can spin it both ways, unless of course you are bigoted.

              Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

              by Batfish on Sat Sep 29, 2007 at 11:18:04 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site