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View Diary: Employment Discrimination: Where do we go from here? (206 comments)

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  •  What I want is or gays and lesbians... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    homogenius, Runs With Scissors

    ...to actually give me some indication that they are going to work for me.

    Some planning would be nice.  Not the sort like andgarden suggests, where we are left to our own devices.

    •  I don't appreciate (0+ / 0-)

      the continued distortion of my position.

    •  But that framework is already there. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      andgarden

      I've already read statements of support from HRC and NGLTF. I'm sure there are others. This agreement has been in place for three years and people have been working together on that basis.

      What do you think will happen if you succeed in pulling ENDA for now? Do you think this will build more support for trans rights? Do you think this will change any hearts and minds in your favor? Do you think it will build unity in GLBT communities?

      This is a really nasty sack of shit we have before us.

      Thank you for opening the door to reasoned discussion here. Honestly, I think the less people talk about "being thrown under the bus" and more about honoring agreements, keeping our communities united, and achieving justice for all, the better for everyone concerned.

      I'm not saying don't express your anger and hurt. Just don't lash out at your friends. I understand a lot of people distrust Barney Frank. But he has done a great job on this, including for trans people, IMO.

      Either way it seems to me we need to move forward with the commitments and the framework we have. It's the best we have ever had. Major LBGT organzations have committed to ENDA including trans rights. That is the right thing to do and only objective worth working for. Now the question is how best to achieve it. That I really don't know. Neither way is perfect. Both have drawbacks.

      The only thing I do know is that we have to keep moving forward. I'm going to keep doing the same things I have been doing. When I write my representatives, I advocate for fully inclusive LGBT rights. When I talk about it in mixed gatherings, I educate people about trans issues and realities as I know them from my friends and experience.

      That's all I know to do.

      I live in hope that I will live long enough to piss on the grave of George W. Bush.

      by homogenius on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:27:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not for pulling Enda now. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter, cfk, Runs With Scissors

        I am not "all transpeople."  We are individuals.  Please don't assign me beliefs like that.

      •  What is the liklihood (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peace voter, sberel, jessical, Chacounne

        that ENDA passes both houses and Bush signs it?

        Seriously?

        If Bush isn't going to sign this flawed version, then why bother?  Why not wait until we have a democratic president and control of the Congress and pass the bill we want?

        Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

        by DMiller on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:44:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And that's a valid POV. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plf515

          I honestly don't know which way is best. I think people of good will are trying to achieve the best outcome in a difficult situation. And I really don't know what that is.

          I live in hope that I will live long enough to piss on the grave of George W. Bush.

          by homogenius on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:55:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've looked at the HRC (6+ / 0-)

            (human rights campaign) website and elsewhere and don't see any indication on whether the bill is likely to pass or whether Bush is likely to sign.  I just cannot imagine Bush, who ran and won on homophobia, signing this bill, even in its watered down form, right before an election year.

            Thus, as I just posted elsewhere, I think this is all smoke and mirrors.  A schism has been created in a community that was otherwise unified and powerful and the bill was never destined to be law anyway.

            Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

            by DMiller on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:59:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  what is the best outcome? (6+ / 0-)

            to me it's standing in solidarity.  

            The saying "divided we fall" never rang more true.

            Divided we fail.


            ````
            peace

          •  I know that both (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peace voter, machka, rserven, plf515, Chacounne

            Senators Clinton and Edwards have said that they would sign the bill (before it was changed).  I don't know what Senator Obama's position is, but I would imagine that his is the same.

            Frankly, I think all three are far more likely to sign an umbrella ENDA including transgender protection than a specific bill protecting transgender rights (if one could make it through Congress, which is unlikely).

            Assuming for the moment that the bill isn't withdrawn (which I haven't decided whether or not I favor) and assuming that Bush does veto it, why not wait until we have a more favorable Congress and a democratic President and push it through again?

            Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31

            by DMiller on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:13:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Barney Frank's Staffer says that bush will sign (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rserven, jessical

          pretty much with or without the T, because of other parts of the bill.

          If that's true, then GENDA (Barney's new bill) will be left out in the cold, and my kids won't got to college without a scholarship because I'm flipping burgers.

          "Wisdom says I am nothing. Love says I am everything. Between the two, my life flows." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

          by TransAmerican on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:51:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Are you sure you're thinking of... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rserven

            the employment discrimination, or the hate crimes bill (which is attached to the defense bill and Bush may not want to go through with vetoing the entire defense spending package only to have wait gawd knows how long for a replacement bill, that the Democrats might just attach to it the hate crimes provision again, should the same Republicans support a cloture vote in the Senate {although that's iffy}).  Hate crimes has a chance... employment discrimination really doesn't, regardless of what it's attached to, unless it will also be attached to the defense spending bill.  If not, what larger bill are the Dems planning to attach the employment discrimination amendment to?

            FYI, I support holding out for the trans-inclusive version of ENDA, and I don't believe it will take as long to switch a dozen or so votes (which is all I believe that we need to lobby to switch for a majority) as some say it will.

            •  I want to thank you for your input here. (0+ / 0-)

              Having changed location and employment in 2000, I had to concentrate for a year on finding a permanent position and 5 years on regaining tenure.  Although relatively active here for the last couple of years, I still haven't been able to reconnect with my former network of activists.

              So when it comes to present day activism, I'm an educator, which is not necessarily what is needed.  But at least I thought some discussion was needed and I think we got some of that started.

              Robyn

            •  Yes, I am referring to ENDA (0+ / 0-)

              His staffer was very clear and I asked him if he was sure.  Twice.

              "Wisdom says I am nothing. Love says I am everything. Between the two, my life flows." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

              by TransAmerican on Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 03:22:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Interesting... (0+ / 0-)

                ... now I understand why there's added impetus for ENDA to pass, if it, along with the hate crimes amendment, will both be attached to the defense bill.  Bush may very well be forced to sign the whole package, unless he wants to be forced to issue a "precipitous" withdrawal.

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