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View Diary: ID-Sen: Tied up in knots (93 comments)

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  •  The Senate Ethics Committee hearings (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rlharry, NogodsnomastersMary

    will be so helpful to the Republicans . . . not!

    •  I really think that the Ethics Committee hearings (5+ / 0-)

      are basically unfair to Craig. Imagine if Craig had scored a speeding ticket, which is a misdemeanor. Would his case now have come before the Committee? I think not. The only resonable purpose of the Ethics Committee is to investigate charges directly related to a Senator's job as a Senator. Seedy as trolling in a public bathroom for sex might be, and amusing as the embarrassment of the GOP over this might be, it is unfair to persecute Craig for personal sexual conduct. If defence of Bill Clinton, for which MoveOn was founded, was right, then Craig should receive the same consideration. It's called fairness. Is MoveOn going to call for the Ethics investigation to be dropped?

      Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

      by Batfish on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 11:12:22 AM PDT

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      •  I would tend to agree (5+ / 0-)

        if, that is, he had not continued to lie about his actions. His lies continue the anti-gay tirade he has been on for his entire career. His lie about the reasons for pleading guilty show utter disdain for our judicial system.

        He has chosen -- in the most public fashion possible -- to deny, and show contempt for, people with his sexual orientation. I feel badly for his family, and I feel badly for him that he is doing far more to bring shame upon himself than anything he attempted to do in that airport bathroom. But to the extent his actions are causing problems for the Grand Old Party of hypocrisy, I won't be losing any sleep over that. :)

        •  Bill Clinton lied about his (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PBCliberal, Christopher Liberal

          and in fact, his defenders said that his lies were not impeachable offences because he was just lying about sex, which is what Craig is doing. Fairness doesn't matter much if you're only fair to people you like. Fairness must be extended to those we dislike, otherwise it's not fairness.

          Larry Craig, whatever his private actions may be, has done nothing that many other public officials have done and that includes Democrats like Barney Frank (hired male prostitute) and Bill Clinton (too many to detail here). I just don't feel right about bringing a public institution into an action committed by someone acting as a private citizen.

          Imagine someone saying: I am against the burning of witches unless I particularly dislike the woman accused of being a witch.  Is that something you would agree with?

          Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

          by Batfish on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:03:32 PM PDT

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          •  Um, I'm not calling for Larry Craig's impeachment (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            deben, PBCliberal

            In fact, I would go so far to say that Bill Clinton's escapades with Monica were far more serious than Larry Craig's. Craig wasn't caught doing anything with an intern in the workplace.

            However, you have completely missed the point.

            Larry Craig's actions -- subsequent to being "found out" demonstrate hypocrisy and a continuing hostility towards gay people. The reaction of his fellow Republicans also demonstrate the same. His continuing lies, hypocrisy, and hostility towards gays and lesbians are causing problems for him and the Republicans, and to that extent they get what they deserve, be it in the ethics committee or elsewhere.

            Oh, and btw, Barney Frank admitted his transgressions. Big difference there.

            •  Similarly (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PBCliberal

              I am not saying Craig isn't a weasel. All I am saying is that whatever he did is not grounds for an Ethics investigation.

              Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

              by Batfish on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:37:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If he hadn't (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bob Friend

                acted as a lying hypocrite with total disdain for gays and lesbians, I would tend to agree, and be sympathetic towards your view. But he has magnified his troubles tremendously by his gay bashing attitude and hypocrisy (in addition to his totally absurd lies). In view of this, I can't be sympathetic to the troubles he continues to bring upon himself and his party.

                I do feel sympathy for his family, who continue endure the consequences of his extremely public refusal to come to terms with his sexual orientation. They do appear to be innocent victims in all of this.

          •  Lying about lying about sex (0+ / 0-)

            That's the dilemma the GOP is on the horns of. And its what got a lot of the Clinton attackers in trouble, as one after another endured the revelation of their mistresses and extramarital affairs and wound up resigning.

            I am reminded of an exchange when Barney Frank was on Maher. The token GOP apologist said, "Its not against the law to be gay," to which Frank responded, "If your party had its way, it would be."

            I think, as Craig now does, that he should have fought the charges. I wrote my [pimp alert] first diary about it. He engaged in communication that was not expressly lewd. In arresting him, the government told him that toe-tapping and hand-waving was impermissible in that environment.

            I'd defend Larry Craig even if it didn't have the added benefit of pointing out the hypocrisy of the GOP. These are very similar to the rights they're taking away. Supporting him for reasons different than what he'd like is far better than trashing him for a desired partisan political outcome.

            Florida Democrats: Delegates 210, Suffrage 0

            by PBCliberal on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:45:06 PM PDT

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            •  Fair points. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PBCliberal, barbwires

              But the reality is that he pled guilty.

              And the defamed the officer.  And claimed that he hadn't understood the charges and had been intimidated, etc., etc.

              Ethics?

              "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

              by ogre on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 01:35:57 PM PDT

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              •  A history of bad choices (0+ / 0-)

                Don't think I'm suggesting this guy has a history of acting responsibly. His voting record in the Senate speaks to that question far better than I can.

                He is the posterchild for making bad decisions and then trying to circumvent them through other bad decisions. His trouble with the Idaho statesman arose in part from charges by a guy who claimed he had sex with Craig in a DC bathroom. Its just bad form for somebody in the public eye to pick people up in a bathroom, but its the height of stupidity for a sitting US Senator to pick somebody up in Wonk City.

                Its even worse form for somebody who is making the laws that govern millions and imprison hundreds of thousands to claim he didn't understand the legal process. Ethics? You're right. They don't even slow down when passing Senator Craig.

                But I also I don't know how you defame an officer who is being paid to learn the complex mating rituals of guys who are into bathroom sex, and then is paid to sit in a public stall and use them to entrap people.

                This thing stinks from the head down, which is why it couldn't have happened in a better place than at a public site at the airport in Minneapolis, where all the family values folks can reflect on it on their way to their planning sessions to try and stay in power.

                Florida Democrats: Delegates 210, Suffrage 0

                by PBCliberal on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 01:58:13 PM PDT

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      •  Did Craig make speeders into moral lepers? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Friend

        Raise money to persecute those who have received a speeding ticket?  Campaign to exclude speeders from society?

        I was unaware of this.  I do know though of his associations with those who persecute others under the code words "family values."

        Dems in Congress, quit the pathetic pleading. Compel.

        by deben on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 12:12:01 PM PDT

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      •  Speeding isn't a misdemeanor. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ellefarr

        It's a mere infraction.

        "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

        by ogre on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 01:37:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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