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View Diary: SCHIP Stories: Republicans Getting Grief From All Angles (138 comments)

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  •  This is an absolute lie (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt W

    and should be withdrawn. Catholic social teaching wants lesbians and gay men to cease to exist. It is indistinguishable from Jew hating. This body of doctrine sees a world in which gay people have no rights to jobs, employment, relationships. What good is it for progressives to enjoy a relationship with conservative Catholics when their gay allies are being denied the right to live?

    I would hope progressives will not through lesbians and gays under the bus to persue an alliance with conservative catholics. But I may be wrong.

    •  Sigh (11+ / 0-)

      I'm a regular contributor to Human Rights Campaign.  I've marched in Pride Parades.  I've signed petitions, written my Senators, participated in rallies, cried, cajoled, prayed, and sung in support of full inclusion for gays and lesbians.  And I'll keep doing it.

      "They say you've revolutionised American politics merely by not being dumb." -Mark Helprin, Freddy and Fredericka

      by Matt W on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 11:17:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm with you (5+ / 0-)

        Matt W, in your assessment of Catholic Social Teaching. I think DaleA's response is hyperbole (though surely w/ some bits of accuracy).

        I think it's a shame that people who support complete and full equality for gays would be trashed on a site of 'progressives' who supposedly support gay equality. I think the gay equality movement needs all the voices we can get, regardless of weather or not they support your particular religious or political beliefs on other matters. If we really want to get anywhere, there needs to be more open-mindedness in the gay community. We are not monolithic and I think it's ludicrous to pretend otherwise, like we often do. Can't we accept that there are differences of beliefs, but that we all share one common goal of equality??

        ok i'm going to go sing kumbaya now

      •  What are you doing to change the official (0+ / 0-)

        teachings, positions and practices of the RC? If nothing, given that lay people have very little input on that, you are tacitly supporting the RC's teatment of gays.

    •  It can't be withdrawn (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Unless you mean he should comment again, and retract what he said. With a uid as low as yours you should know that comments can't be deleted. You should also know that troll ratings are not used for a mere difference of opinion.

      Uprated to counteract ratings abuse.

    •  You're a bit of a one issue person are you? (8+ / 0-)

      Not much better than some rw nuts IMO. You refuse to see that there are a number of things in common with some Catholics, and it would be good to make a connection with these people on the issues where we agree with them. Instead you chose to paint all the Catholics with the same brush (talking about discrimination) because some conservative Catholics in your opinion deny gays and lesbians the right to live. There is not much that can be achieved in politics if you only want to deal with people that agree with you 100% on all subjects.

      But anyway, you are wrong. The official doctrine of the Catholic Church is NOT that gays and lesbians are denied the right to live. The Church does have problems with gay and lesbian sex, and with the the official recognition of gay and lesbian relationships, but the official "Social Doctrine of the Church states : "Homosexual persons are to be fully respected in their human dignity." (point 228, second paragraph).

      I have been brought up as a Catholic and from experience I can tell you that most Catholics live there lives rather unencumbered by whatever the Pope has to say. "No sex before marriage" is a non-starter, and even a heavily Catholic country like Spain now has homsexual civil unions.

      Btw, don't take this to mean that I support the Church Doctrine. I don't and I am not a Catholic.

      I just want to point out that as long as you allow the neocons to polarize groups of people that could work well together on numerous issues like health care and the environment on the two wedge issues of abortion and homosexuality, you're only playing into the neocons' hands by demonizing the group on the other side of the wedge issues and not looking into how you can work with them on other issues, and if there are not people on the other side that have more moderate views on some of the wedge issues. Divide and conquer is what it is all about.

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