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View Diary: Book Review: Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" (208 comments)

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  •  I think those that impose these measures also (2+ / 0-)
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    GayHillbilly, PsychoSavannah

    turn(ed) a blind eye to the corruption (often of huge scale) that was common in many fo the countries to which they were applied. That this corruption sometimes benefited those associated with the U.S. government also cannot be overlooked.

    "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." -- Winston Churchill

    by Spud1 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:31:32 PM PDT

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    •  Thank you! (2+ / 0-)
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      Spud1, PsychoSavannah

      I was trying to think of what I was forgeting to say and that is that corruption, while a product of self-interest, often prevents the emergence of efficent  markets.

      "Its' got to be done and done quickly, so let's get it done." - General Henry 'Hap' Arnold

      by afguy08 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:32:46 PM PDT

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      •  But Klein and other critics of neoliberalism (8+ / 0-)

        Would point out that free market economics robs societies of the tools to fight back when corruption is produced from "efficient markets."

        One also has to ask when an efficient market has ever been created outside of government. Or for that matter when a market has ever existed outside of government.

        I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

        by eugene on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:50:51 PM PDT

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        •  Or if either has ever been w/o corruption. Like (2+ / 0-)
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          eugene, PsychoSavannah

          all of this discussion, it is a matter of degree, and what is acceptable. I think this is why some people call the field of economics more of an art than a science.

          "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." -- Winston Churchill

          by Spud1 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:53:57 PM PDT

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        •  Barter economies (3+ / 0-)

          are, by definition, optimally efficient. And they existed long before government did.

          "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

          by Geenius at Wrok on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:56:43 PM PDT

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          •  There is an interesting sci-fi short story (Poul (1+ / 0-)
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            Anderson??) in which people, instead of using money to buy things, try to plant obligations ("obs") on others, i.e. to make them beholden.

            It's a fascniating way to look at how labor and wealth con be exchanged, and how different people act when instead of trying to TAKE something from someone, they are trying to GIVE. It is often humorous how characters int he story decline and duck such "offerings".

            "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." -- Winston Churchill

            by Spud1 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 06:21:10 PM PDT

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      •  One need only look at Iraq, which was (2+ / 0-)
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        Halcyon, junta0201

        the blank slate that the Chicago School had long yearned for to see how important a roll large scale corruption can play. It is telling that these academics totally missed it, and for so long.

        "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." -- Winston Churchill

        by Spud1 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 04:56:11 PM PDT

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        •  Naomi Klein on C-Span (7+ / 0-)

          observes that "shock & awe" was the necessary precursor of "shock therapy" that Paul Bremer administered.

          Notice that twice in this interview Foers tries to force Klein to say "Wolfowitz = Jeffrey Sachs and both have hearts of gold."  Klein resisted. (nb. can't hold it in: Foer is a disgusting person.)

          Notice also that Klein points out this doctrine is not new:  Keynes warned in 1920 essay, "The Consequences of the Peace," that to deprive people of self-determination is dangerous; they will become enraged and that rage will take form:  WWII was the form Keynes predicted; chaos in Iraq is the form Iraqi rage took following Bremer's shock therapy.

          I have written elsewhere on kos that Ed Royce has explained HR 1400 and the ongoing economic strangulation of Iran.  If what he describes is not Shock Doctrine, nothing is.  Sanctions on Iran are the first phases of shock doctrine. Royce said:  "sanctions will cause hyperinflation; we will block the people's access to natural gas, the people will riot; if the internal conflict becomes sufficiently intense, they will topple the regime."

          Royce's prescription is, of course, not only madness as in sociopathological, it will interfere with the ongoing attempts of the Iranian people to reform their own society.  Maybe that's what Bush/Cheney have in mind.  see

          The "what can we do" part of this discussion is talk about it everywhere you go, every blog you write.  Write to your congressman, explain Shock Doctrine to him.  Write a letter to the editor.  Post an article in your coffee shop. Don't wait for the library book, save up your latte money and buy your own copy.
          Do NOT give Bush & the Congress the opportunity to say, "We didn't know" or "the intelligence was mistaken."  We know; Kossaks know; the dots are connected, there is no excuse.

          When a coward sees a man he thinks he can beat he becomes hungry for a fight. -Chinhua Achebe, Things Fall Apart.

          by BughouseWW on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 06:01:14 PM PDT

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          •  It feels like the shock doctrine is (3+ / 0-)
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            sarahnity, KiaRioGrl79, junta0201

            beginning to accelerate here in the US as well., most recently with the subprime crisis, dollar devaluation, sharp increases in cost of energy and food. Polls are already showing growing awareness of the fact that the current generation cannot make ends meet or live a better life than their parents, by 2/3 of respondents. Considering the distracting efforts of the media, the fact that there is already so much awareness of economic downturn points to how much progress has already been made towards hollowing out the US economy and resources already. And this is not to mention the raping of the public lands by the extraction industries. It may turn out that North America is in fact the 'final frontier' as the neoliberal IMF/WB structural adjustment chickens come home to roost. Or, I suppose Antarctica will soon be up for grabs.

      •  but Greenspan (0+ / 0-)

        has said that oh well, there is always some corruption. Thanks for clearing that up, Al....

    •  The excuse of corruption (1+ / 0-)
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      well she talked about that in her book.  But it's what the policies were designed to do.

      The IMF never used to act as it did, before it was filled with Chicago Boys in the 1980s.

      In fact, Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel prize winner in 2001, reviewed Shock Doctrine in the NYTimes) wrote his winning thesis on how the markets and capital themselves are inefficient.  For example, unequal access to information.

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