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  •  Typo in the title--and (5+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure if there's any reason to believe that the Bush-dissatisfaction will translate to Democratic votes.

    Let there be sharks - TracieLynn

    by GussieFN on Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 06:26:44 PM PDT

    •  many are going independent (11+ / 0-)

      and staying home or voting third party. Covered in the story.

      (The defectors by and large say they’ve become independents, not Democrats, according to the polls.)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 06:32:19 PM PDT

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      •  I'll believe that this affects actual (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ATinNM, Wary, bythesea, luckylizard

        votes when I see the results.

        And I really, really, really hope my pessimism is proved groundless.

        Let there be sharks - TracieLynn

        by GussieFN on Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 06:37:14 PM PDT

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      •  They better not become Democrats. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        techno, vets74

        ....Sorry, but the Right gets to keep these fruitcakes .

        Too weird to live and too rare to die.

        by jds1978 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 06:38:41 AM PDT

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        •  I'll take some of them... (7+ / 0-)

          ...the ones who ranked "same-sex marriage" as last on their list of concerns and care most about children's health and peace on earth. Those are good people worth allying with in my opinion. Evangelical Christianity has a good side, and I'm cool with the people who embody that side of it.

          I admit I have a discomfort level dialoguing with pro-lifers, but if they're at least not hypocrites and care about the lives of born children, poor people, soldiers, etc. then I'm more than willing to share a tent with them and talk it over. There are some valuable ways of reducing the number of abortions by empowering women that I'd be happy to work on with them, for example. I'm flexible.

          The ones who still think gays and abortions are the biggest problems facing the country, I'd rather they just stayed home or voted third-party.

          •  GOP recruitment set out to pull in nuts. (6+ / 0-)

            The key factor was identification of ANGRY WHITE MALES as a target group.

            That goes back to the 1980s. Efforts to understand the George Wallace phenomenon.

            Political science analysis -- using stratefied sample techniques -- showed that lower education white males frequently blamed Democrats for their work problems.

            Bussing had been followed by minority preferences. AWMs hated both.

            The more extreme segments of this strata turned into the Rush Limbaugh & other hate-radio audiences.

            The GOP pulled in an astonishing percentage of Antisocial personality types. Hate, per se, is a prime selling point for red state GOP candidates.

            Civility has been derided steadily for two decades as weakness and/or effete intellectualism.

            Dixie Chicks and Amy Winehouse. Imus and Lenny Bruce. Overcome evil with good.

            by vets74 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 09:35:40 AM PDT

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            •  Just needed to remind you..... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vets74

              George Wallace was not a Republican.

              He actually started his career as a Democrat and ran as an Independent.

              •  And ALL of Wallace's voters are now Republicans. (0+ / 0-)

                That block is one part of what the GOP got for selling out to the white religious right.

                Ain't nothing in politics that's permanent.

                SCHIP and a serious "Stand By Your Man" pitch from Hillary Clinton are major threats to that conquest.

                Dixie Chicks and Amy Winehouse. Imus and Lenny Bruce. Overcome evil with good.

                by vets74 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:17:08 AM PDT

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    •  Maybe not, but they could stay home (8+ / 0-)

      and not vote at all.

      Almost as good.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 06:32:54 PM PDT

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      •  They've done it before (10+ / 0-)

        They never really got on board with bob dole. Lots of 'em stayed home that year.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Sat Oct 27, 2007 at 07:18:27 PM PDT

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        •  Unfortunately, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dougymi, vets74

          they came back balls to the wall for bush. What I would rather see is more of them moving away from the republic party.

          Common Sense is not Common

          by RustyBrown on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 08:03:49 AM PDT

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          •  Balls to the wall (0+ / 0-)

            is what they need. Anything less would not have gotten Bush elected.

            My concern is that while Rudy or the other candidates (well, maybe Huckabee) would not inspire balls to the wall support, Hillary might inspire balls tot he wall opposition. (Kind of like how the gay initiatives generated turnout among fundies.)

            Anyway, the point is that with full fundie support,Bush squeaked by twice.

            No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back.

            by Joan in Seattle on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 08:31:31 AM PDT

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            •  I've heard the Hillary (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dougymi, vets74

              issue brought up and discussed many times. Not convinced. Still think Dem's win this one regardless of who runs.

              By the way, there are still many things about the Seattle area that we miss dearly. We lived in Monroe.

              Common Sense is not Common

              by RustyBrown on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 09:14:55 AM PDT

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              •  Dangerous attitude, I'm afraid (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Little Red Hen, CParis, vets74

                Still think Dem's win this one regardless of who runs.

                Ok to disagree but GOP and entrenched power will not give up easily. Remember, they lie cheat and steal with comfort. They distort, pervert, and will stop ant nothing. We are talking about the most powerful office in the world, and about people unhindered by conscience and with limitless financial resources.

                And we are talking about a poplace that elected GWB not once but twice.

                We must play to win, not play not to lose. Asuming we are already in has de-balled the Congress, in my not so humble opinion.  

                From your near-SEattle experience you must have many memories of Seattle teams that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by trying to run out the clock instead of aggressivly scoring. I fear that is what the dems will do.

                No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back.

                by Joan in Seattle on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 09:28:41 AM PDT

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        •  They won't stay home. They are to close to (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DesertCat, DKHOLLA, vets74, echatwa, mon

          swinging the SCOTUS to their favor. They will come out in droves with clothespins on their noses & vote GOP.

          We are going to need an even larger GOTV movement in 08 than what we accomplished in 06.

          •  Anti-abortion voters, yes. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NogodsnomastersMary

            SCHIP vs. abortion.

            Can't think the GOP will be able to hold more than half the abortion-only vote.

            Live kids matter too much. And nobody is being forced to get an abortion.

            Dixie Chicks and Amy Winehouse. Imus and Lenny Bruce. Overcome evil with good.

            by vets74 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 09:42:02 AM PDT

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            •  yes, but (3+ / 0-)

              that's assuming that the anti-abortion voters actually care about children and not just punishing sluts. and even if some of them do, i'm betting it's far less than 50 percent, and also, abortion trumps everything--this i know from how i was raised. so i wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

              Justice will not come to Athens until those who are not injured are as indignant as those who are. -Thucydides

              by belindapope on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 10:39:13 AM PDT

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              •  But then are they lying on this poll? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                vets74

                They ranked "healthcare" on the top of the list of issues and "abortion" near the end. That doesn't sound like it trumps everything for them.

                I'm not getting my hopes up but I think noting the dissatisfaction among this voting bloc is reasonable.

              •  Anti-abortion is based on sympathy for the fetus. (0+ / 0-)

                They have in-the-womb photos on their bulletin boards. Next to in-the-trash-can post-abortion photos.

                Nothing to do with "punishing sluts."

                Try to keep it somewhere close to real....

                BTW: anyone who has zip-zero sympathy for a fetus, well that's hardly a moral high ground.

                We're to have more sympathy for the Michael Vick pit bull dogs ?

                Dixie Chicks and Amy Winehouse. Imus and Lenny Bruce. Overcome evil with good.

                by vets74 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 12:59:23 PM PDT

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                •  I must correct you, Friend (3+ / 0-)

                  Any GENUINE concern for feuses (note I said "genuine") would involve enthusiastic support for things such as prenatal nutritional programs, tough environmental laws that would keep harmful chemicals out of air, soil and water; tougher labeling laws for medications, both scrip and OTC, that would protect the unborn, legal protections for unmarried mothers against punitive landlords and bosses---ALL of which the righties are against.

                  Really: They don't give a damn about the unborn.  All they care about is turning back the social clock to deprive women of life and career choices and attempting to restore male power and female chattelry.

                  •  "They don't give a damn about the unborn" ??? (0+ / 0-)

                    This is an extreme statement.

                    It contradicts everything that is said at churches throughout the country. It contradicts every church bulletin board i've seen. Every conversation I've had with anti-abortion Americans.

                    In fact, they don't think about depriving women of "life and career choices," one way or the other.

                    Same as they do not think about gays or lesbians.

                    Of course, they do think about children, both born and "unborn." That is what they do think and talk about.

                    Please have a minimal respect for others. Even people who disagree with you.

                    Dixie Chicks and Amy Winehouse. Imus and Lenny Bruce. Overcome evil with good.

                    by vets74 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:55:28 AM PDT

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                •  oddly enough . . . (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Fifth Generation Leftist

                  The "pro-life" movement's, uh, "sympathy for the fetus" seems to come to an abrupt end once it's been born.

                  Which is, I suppose, why The Shrub doesn't want to spend money for sick kids.

                  Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

                  by Lenny Flank on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 05:25:09 PM PDT

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                •  i disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                  most people I know who are against abortion make exceptions for cases of rape and incest. It looks to me like the value of the fetus is determined by whether the woman chose to have sex or was forced into it.

                  Justice will not come to Athens until those who are not injured are as indignant as those who are. -Thucydides

                  by belindapope on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:33:07 PM PDT

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          •  um, lets make that: (0+ / 0-)

            GOTDV

            A society of sheep must beget in time a government of wolves. Bertrand de Jouvenel

            by Little Red Hen on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 10:51:33 AM PDT

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    •  yes, but the real dividend we would see (4+ / 0-)

      would be that these reality-challenged types wouldn't be so ardent in their active volunteering for a candidate, like they were for Bush.  If they stay home on election day, great, but the real benefit is if they stay home for the 9 months or so BEFORE the election.

      AND, if the evangelical pastors stop corecing their memberships into voting Republican, and oh, maybe, say, feed and clothe the poor?


      "You cannot leave the rapist with the victim to serve as the therapist" - Iraqi journalist

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 07:41:38 AM PDT

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      •  I don't hold out much hope for those pastors, (0+ / 0-)

        Alyosha. They are more enamored of the Old Testament, what with all the punishing and the smiting. But you are exactly right about religious conservatives staying home in the months before the election: here in Texas, for example, ever since the late 1980's, hateful Jeebusites have been the envelope stuffers and door-to-door block walkers. I'd love to see them all find better things to do. Having to pay to get routine campaign work done is a great way to drain a party's coffers.

        I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

        by NogodsnomastersMary on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 10:47:31 AM PDT

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