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View Diary: A Glimmer of Hope; fees increase on H-1B guest worker Visas (203 comments)

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  •  Careful. the anti-immigrant folks make this error (7+ / 0-)

    There is a difference between being anti- H1-B abuse and being anti-immigration.

    Bernie sanders supports amnesty. He is opposed to H1-B visas.

    This is a reasonable stance because H1-B visas are temporary visas meaning that people don't have important rights that allow them to get go salaries or stand up for their rights.

    I feel strongly that anyone working in the US should have all important workers rights and a path to citizenship.

    This is why green cards and a path to citizenship for people in the country now are far better then the temporary visas the anti-immigrant folks are trying to push down our throats.

    •  I Have A Different Plan (0+ / 0-)

      It involves paying a high enough wage that the native-born will take low-skill service jobs on the one hand, and discouraging low-skill immigration while encouraging high-skill foreign workers to relocate here permanently.

      I usually love Bernie Sanders, but this measure is simply xenophobic multi-ethnic pandering bullshit that does nothing to solve any of the substantive problems it purports to address.

      •  I respectfully disagree. (6+ / 0-)

        Let's have green cards instead of H1-B's. The H1-B program would be better if the recipients were given more rights.

        My understanding is that Bernie Sanders supports this position.

        I know he supported the Dream Act. He also gets a 0% from FAIR (the right wing anti-immigrant organization) which is a good mark in my book.

      •  ever really think this one out? (4+ / 0-)

        It involves paying a high enough wage that the native-born will take low-skill service jobs on the one hand, and discouraging low-skill immigration while encouraging high-skill foreign workers to relocate here permanently.

        So what your saying is that MacDonalds and such should raise their wages so US workers will move to into those low-skilled service jobs..while at the same time taking high-paying, high-skilled, middle-class jobs and move to fill them instead with foreign workers? ...what is the gain in this? ....Am I missing something? Is it just to change the general demographics on immigration?

        •  you miss nothing (5+ / 0-)

          as I've repeatedly pointed out, we have some "activists" who literally have called Americans:

          1.  fat
          1.  lazy
          1.  stupid
          1.  peasants

          and literally believe innovation can only come from "immigrants" when in reality it is Americans who created the entire information age.   You uprate their posts constantly instead of having a uniform code against discriminatory, racist comments such as you obviously picked up in this one.  You don't get it...equal opportunity, diversity are American values they are not globally held.

          http://blog.noslaves.com

          by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:06:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Indeed (3+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            Duke1676, northofboston, Nightprowlkitty
            Hidden by:
            BobOak

            Fuck self-esteem.

            Criticize yourself, change yourself and earn some self respect. That's what the fat, stupid, lazy, whitebread peasants need to do, instead of gorging on football, Britney, and high-fructose corn syrup.

            •  Damn right (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              freespeech

              Here's the reasonwhy US companies are going after high skilled foreign workers. Change that and you won't need a H1B program. But as long as we have a shortage of scientists and engineers who can do the work Microsoft and Intel needs them to do, we have no choice but to recruit foreign talent. More hate mongering from Lou "Leprosy" Dobbs and this diarist will only make things worse for the US economy with MS and Google opening offices in Canada and India, with GM opening research centers in China.

              •  that ignores (4+ / 0-)

                the reality that US universities are the best in the world with Americans possessing those credentials and more importantly, patents.

                http://blog.noslaves.com

                by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:56:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  and that ignores.. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Nightprowlkitty

                  the fact that one of the reasons that US universities are the best in the world is that

                  they intake the best students/researchers not only from the US but from all over the world.

                  (encouragement of innovation and funding/investment in R&D being the other important reasons). Take a look at either Academia or Industry(R&D):

                  in STEM, there is significant percentage of foreigners or foreign-born people.

                  Again, as far as peer-reviewed publications go, you'll find the same trend. Innovation and technological leadership is a consequence of the "American approach" and not "American citizens". Lastly, I don't think you can substantiate your claims that

                  ...with Americans possessing those credentials and more importantly, patents.

                  10-30% of the people involved in STEM R&D are foreigners/foreign-born, do you sincerely expect us to believe that all innovation/patents is the exclusive forte of just Americans?

              •  Say that I take your premise as true (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dkmich, BobOak, uscitizenvoter

                In fact it is not true as the largest users of the H1B program is Indian offshoring companies, which are not in fact 'US' companies at all. Additionally the H1B visa is a non-immigrant guest worker visa.

                But say that I take your premise as being true and 'Microsoft and Intel needs them'.

                Change that and you won't need a H1B program.

                Why, if I am Microsoft or Intel and, I can pay a person with a bachelors degree from India $53,000 to do what I 'need them to do', (the what of which I find it fascinating that the pro-H1B/L1 guest-worker crowd generally have no idea of) and I can keep that person in what is essentially the role of an indentured servant for the first six years, and keep them as a house boy for as much as six or seven more, why would I ever want to change that?

                By the way, look at the same report for 2000 thru 2004 the number of H1B's with a bachelors degree or less was 50% or greater, and the median salaries were, as I remember, $46,000.

                It is only because a bunch of people who actually helped invent the term 'information super-highway' and unlike Dianne Feinstein really know what that term means, have these numbers started to change.

                <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                by superscalar on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:08:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •   good schools (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dkmich, BobOak

                Maybe those are the types of public schools you attended, but in Minnesota, where I grew up, we had very good public schools.  It seemed strange to us as to why someone would pay extra to go to a private or parochial school for a quality education.

        •  If the Job Doesn't Pay a Living Wage (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hens Teeth

          There's something wrong with the business model.

          I believe in providing a living wage for the least among us, while providing real incentives for the best everywhere to come here.

          •  no (3+ / 0-)

            what you will do is flood the labor market and by the law of supply/demand, all else being equal, reduce the wages of middle class jobs.  That is labor economics 101 and the law of supply and demand.  The NSF knows this, acknowledges it and is one of the reasons they push for more guest worker Visas, to keep wages low, especially within Academia.  Without paying attention to supply and demand this plays right into the race to the bottom.  There are ways and many are already in place in US immigration policy to encourage true international talent yet not labor arbitrage like your posts suggests.  The US is loaded with highly skilled STEM, beyond what the job market requires.

            http://blog.noslaves.com

            by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:29:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We Can't Get Guest Worker Visas in Academia (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              freespeech

              The lead time is too long and the quota is full by the time we have made a match.

              Hiring adjuncts, letting tenure track lines empty out and gutting assistantship stipends has been quite enough to keep wages low in academia.

              But that started in 1971.

              •  false (3+ / 0-)

                Academia is exempt.  They have unlimited access to H-1B guest worker Visas.

                http://blog.noslaves.com

                by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:38:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Whatever The Reason (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  freespeech

                  My legal department won't let me hire guest lecturers for half or full semester runs.

                  Mayhap it's a different classification.

                  I don't mind immigrants.

                  I just wish I could exchange some current residents for them.

                  •  How much are you paying your current residents? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BobOak, uscitizenvoter

                    I just wish I could exchange some current residents for them.

                    In the argument over the H1B program the term 'the best and brightest' is often used.

                    In fact it is often not a case of either 'the best' or 'the brightest' at all.

                    What it is in fact is another case of America, and Americans, wanting something for nothing, or wanting to get something at the cheapest possible price -- with the actual quality of what they are being a secondary issue.

                    Sure if I am Microsoft, or Google, or Cisco, I am a corporation and I am in it to make profits for my shareholders.

                    But there is documented evidence of all these companies getting 1000's of resumes per day.

                    All other things being equal, do people actually think that a largely barely out of college 28 year old engineer from any country is going to be better or brighter than a fifty year old engineer from the US?

                    I don't think so, but then I'm closer to the latter than the former.

                    But I'll tell you what they are. They are cheaper.

                    <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                    by superscalar on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:25:25 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Less Than We Pay The Visitors (0+ / 0-)

                      ...but then we're not trying to hire a lot of replacement workers, we're trying to hire a few special guest stars.

                    •  not always true... (0+ / 0-)

                      Although experience comes with age, capability and intelligence have nothing to do with age. To take a personal example, I am doing my PhD (@ Univ of Calif) on a semiconductor material system (Gallium Nitride) that didn't even exist 20 years ago. Again, the fundamental research in this field came out of Japan (and still continues to do so). Besides, your assertion that "50 year old US engineer" is going to be better than a "barely out of college 28 year old", is based on the premise that "all other things are equal", which is seldom the case.

                      Lastly, do keep in mind that a lot of Silicon Valley innovation came from "young" minds (think Hotmail, Google, Linux or even Bill Gates/Steve Jobs).

                      •  Please take a look at the H1B report I posted (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        BobOak, uscitizenvoter

                        Although experience comes with age, capability and intelligence have nothing to do with age.

                        And then tell me that 44% of 'the best and brightest' in the world come from India, that sixty-five percent of them are between 25 and 34, that 45% of them have a bachelors degree or less, and 43% of the worlds 'best and brightest' are employed in a computer related field and make $55,000 per year (note this is the median salary).

                        Sounds like a Java programmer with one year of experience and no job history to me.

                        Note that these figures, as I posted are off from 51%, 65%, and 51% at $46,000 (as I remember).

                        <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                        by superscalar on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 08:02:13 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I was NOT referring to H1B workers.. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Duke1676

                          .. I know only a small percentage (you would probably know the exact number) are ACTUALLY "high-skilled". For the record, I am from India and know quite a few people (friends and family) who got PhDs in STEM from US universities, and got starting job offers > $90-100K in R&D. As you correctly point out, a lot of H1-B workers (esp in IT field) have only bachelors and/or few years of programming experience -- hardly qualifying as the "best and brightest".

                          •  honestly (0+ / 0-)

                            Do you believe that Gallium Nitride is only for the young?  What does your adviser think about that if you do?  

                            http://blog.noslaves.com

                            by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 09:09:00 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  NOT at ALL... (0+ / 0-)

                            I am against age discrimination (after all I am going to be older some day). My point was simply that it is not always the case that an older engineer is better than a twenty-something recent grad. I took the specific example just to illustrate that in certain areas most of the people with the required skill set can be quite young. (Of course there are older people as well, including the ones who laid the foundations and the ones in academia/industry).

                          •  it was more in jest actually (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            uscitizenvoter, RevenantX

                            I figured out that's where you are coming from but on a more serious note, it's shocking how many do not understand that "there for the grace of God go I"
                            and also a good STEM, it's lifetime learning and research and that discipline does pay off over time.  So sometimes it matters but certainly the real point of the jest is that age is not a barrier as many try to propagandize.  i.e. they try to send out propaganda that anyone over 35 "can't code" magically, cannot learn, and so forth.  

                            http://blog.noslaves.com

                            by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 12:40:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yup.... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BobOak

                            ....(Don't tell my adviser about that;-)) funny how people seem to forget the fact that people who are "old" were once "young" and the "young" will eventually become "old". IMHO besides the "old=inflexible" myth, there are HR issues and also the fact that older workers deserve/expect more pay, whereas by contrast it is easier for younger workers to live on smaller salaries (no families, mortgage etc), i.e. employers find it easier to "bargain" with young employees.

          •  everyones for a living wage (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Nightprowlkitty

            it's your assertion that low-skilled workers (who currently make up the bulk of the unauthorized migrant population) should be discouraged, and only high-skilled workers should be favored for permanent legal status, that I find troubling for the obvious reasons. I believe that such proposals would result in further limiting opportunities for those who need them most...the poor and working poor looking to make a better life.

        •  Glad to see you here to add some balance (3+ / 0-)

          to the hysteria.  Reforming immigration and supporting immigrants and American jobs are both so important that I can't stand the meaningless war this always turns into.  I can't believe we can't do both.  

          No justice, no peace.

          by dkmich on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 04:56:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yep -- that's the solution (4+ / 0-)

        It involves paying a high enough wage that the native-born will take low-skill service jobs on the one hand, and discouraging low-skill immigration while encouraging high-skill foreign workers to relocate here permanently.

        Encourage native born to take low-skilled jobs, and import foreign workers to take high-skilled jobs.

        Yep -- that's the solution.

        <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:06:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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