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View Diary: A Glimmer of Hope; fees increase on H-1B guest worker Visas (203 comments)

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  •  Why trollrate this comment? (5+ / 0-)

    He's disagreeing with you in a smart and reasoned way...

    Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

    by Toktora on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:00:08 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  no he is not (5+ / 1-)

      Not only is he claiming somehow we don't like Bernie, who is our star representative and yes we are all Progressive Democrats in our group, he accused me of being a racist.  That is especially TR for I do not take kindly to insults of the great Bernie Sanders, our hero.

      by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:02:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If you think Boboak is smart and reasonable (3+ / 0-)

      then maybe you haven't been reading his anti immigrant/ anti Mexican comments.  Or maybe you have. I don't know.
      I'm sure even Tom Tancredo can have an opinion that I agree with. That doesn't make him smart and reasonable.

      •  I think (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

        that comment was aimed at the diarist who has troll rated several commenters he simply disagrees with. Ratings abuse

        •  sockpuppet much? (3+ / 0-)

          I note that you have never written a single comment until this story and also uprating brazen racist commentary against Americans, specifically freespeech.

          by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:53:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Gee whiz, bob ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            ... since when are Americans all one race?  How can anti-American comments (none of which I have seen, by the way), be racist?

            I do believe we're all Americans here.  Your comments literally makes no sense.

            •  no (0+ / 0-)

              and for us, we're talking especially about US diversity, please do not as usual distort that outrageous racist post or my comments.  For your information our group is over 50% US diversity, but you are so busy name calling and spamming and especially not reading about the new of course would not know that.


              by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 11:15:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your words, not mine. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Duke1676, immigradvocate

                brazen racist commentary against Americans,

                I am not spamming, I am not name calling.  You are the one doing that.  I am not distorting anything.  You are simply so angry that you are becoming incoherent.

                "American" is not a race, Bob.  It's not debatable.

                •  yes American is a society (0+ / 0-)

                  Try living abroad for awhile and see how much your being American does not matter.  

                  You are spamming.  You do name call, repeatedly and stalk me on this boards. Never, not once have I seen an intelligent comment about the actual bill, policy or hearing I am talking about in my posts.  Not a ONE! You DO NOT pay attention to the bills, the facts, the issues.  You distort.  You lie and you spam.

                  It's pathetic and oblivious to what our issues are, what our positions are and what our labor goals are.


                  by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:06:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Calm down. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Duke1676, immigradvocate

                    You are becoming hysterical.

                    I am NOT spamming.  Immigration is an issue I follow, and so yes, I will read most diaries on this subject.  I do not lie, I do not distort and I do not spam.  You, on the other hand, have been resorting more and more to gratuitous troll rating and personal insults and character smears.

                    Sure, there is an American society, though it is composed of many different strands.  What there is NOT is an American "race."

                    So stop with the nonsensical accusations of racism "against Americans."  You are just plain wrong about this.

                    •  I am not (0+ / 0-)

                      no, and by uprating very obvious hateful, discriminatory and racist against Americans as a national origin (which are US diversity Americans, women....) you are endorsing the very thing you want to accuse me of...constantly.

                      No, I don't think you read anything I say...and to prove it, what bills do we want passed?  even pick one of them, even the sponsor, the title, anything at all.

                      Why do we talk about trade so much?  

                      What is WTO, GATS mode 4?  

                      I'll give you 10 minutes and I know you cannot answer these questions.


                      by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:21:19 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Sorry bob ... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        ... you're not answering my questions, so I am not going to answer yours.  Nice try at reframing our argument, tho, congratulations!

                        You say:

                        no, and by uprating very obvious hateful, discriminatory and racist against Americans as a national origin (which are US diversity Americans, women....)

                        You are becoming less and less coherent -- that statement makes no sense at all.  I AM an American bob, just as much as you are.  We are not a race.

                        You are the one who has accused others of being racist against "Americans."  I pointed out Americans are not a race.  What is so hard to understand about that?

                        You are also accusing me of things I have not done.  Where have I argued about the bill here?  I have indeed argued about your own record here at daily kos, as a community issue -- and that is indeed relevant.  It is relevant -- as a Daily Kos community issue -- that you TR often in your own diaries, a big weakness, imo.

                        It is relevant that you do not engage with respected posters who disagree with you and instead throw out ad hom attacks as to their character when you do not respond to questions about your own affiliations which are also relevant to this debate on a Democratic site, and when it is found to be a fact that you uprate comments which use RW talking points and link to RW sites.

                        So that is what I've been talking about in your diary.  I'm sure you're out of TR's now as you tend to fling them around constantly.  I'm not, but you're not worth TR'ing, imo.

                        Poor you.

                        •  wrong again (0+ / 0-)

                          you've tred me repeatedly and always accuse, spam and most importantly uprate obvious posts that are blatantly racist, discriminatory and derogatory towards Americans.  You have TRed labor activists who complain and say the blogs are a waste of time due to you absurdly oblivious, unaware of positions, policies, global agendas and bills in congress...and most importantly who is behind them and the affects they will have on US labor as well as overall economic direction......who stay on blogs all day to... name call.  Yes, in fact you have TRed some very good labor organizers in fact, which is one of the reasons I find you people so pathetic.


                          by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:33:19 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You are a sad case. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Duke1676, immigradvocate

                            Again, never responding, always attacking.

                            I've given out no troll ratings in this diary -- those are all yours.

                            Nor did I give out TR's in the previous diary where you TR'd me repeatedly.

                            Get a grip -- you are losing it.

                            Oh, and by the way -- in case you have forgotten -- Americans are NOT a race!

                          •  ad hominem attack (0+ / 0-)

                            as usual.  Let's see now, why does Peter DeFazio want a congressional trade office?  What are the issues?

                            Can you answer that?  I think not.  

                            What is the issue with Costa Rica approving CAFTA-DR?  What other additions w.r.t. global worker migration are in that trade agreement?

                            Can you answer that?  again, I think not..

                            Which leads me to this question, why are you even on a political discussion board when you seem to only excel with ad hominem attack and do not understand the first issue w.r.t the global economic corporate agenda?

                            Maybe I should ask, what does ad hominem attack mean and what does it imply about the knowledge base of the issuer?

                            how about this one, who is David Ricardo?  Why is current trade policy not free trade?  What element is in the theory that is being turned into a variable and thus the theory actually collapses in it's model?

                            F for the class again?  I think so!


                            by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:52:09 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nope. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            You keep weasling out of responding.

                            As I said, this is both a DKos community issue and an issue of your own bad framing.  Americans are not a race.  You are just plain wrong about that.

                            I'm not in the mood for a quiz, bob, and certainly not from you.  I'll let my record here at Daily Kos speak for itself.

                            Guess, though, that because you're out of troll ratings, having used them up in your own diary, you  have to resort to this kind of tantrum.

                            Your behavior speaks for itself, too.

                            Oh and by the way ... this is a blog, not a class.  And you are certainly no teacher.

                          •  it's because you are ignorant (0+ / 0-)

                            of the issues and why you try to avoid not answering the policy clearly cannot and are simply doing some sort of glorified cheerleading thing on this blog pretending to be an "activist".  

                            Not understanding the first thing about insourcing or trade, yet name calling is not my idea of political activism and many others to be sure.


                            by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:59:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's because you are ignorant ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            ... of telling the truth about your own positions that you aren't a very respected member of this site.

                            Keep weasling, bob.  Good luck with that.

                          •  Q.E.D. (0+ / 0-)

                            What does Q.E.D. stand for?

                            What is a downward sloping demand curve?

                            What does equilibrium mean in labor economics?

                            A basic labor force equation is:

                            LF = E + U

                            What is E and what is U?

                            How is the United States unemployment rate calculated and how does that differ from the European calculations?



                            by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 02:13:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  He would rather make himself a victim playing the (1+ / 1-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Hidden by:

                          race card himself. And calling someone anti immigrant is not racism. Possibly xenophobic. I don't know. More likely just anger at immigrants, blaming them for the problems of America. Isn't that xenophobia?
                          It's a global economy wheather we like it or not. And immigrants help America be competitive in the world.
                          And being pro immigrant is not anti American. We are all decended from immigrants and should be proud of our heritage.

                      •  10 minutes up! (0+ / 0-)

                        and the answers are:

                        S.1035 : H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act of 2007 (Durbin-Grassley)

                        H.R.2538 : To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to provide greater protections to domestic and foreign workers under the H-1B nonimmigrant worker program. (Pascrell)

                        H.R.2504 : To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act with respect to the admission of L-1 intra-company transferee nonimmigrants. (DeLauro)

                        H.R.548 : To establish a Congressional Trade Office (DeFazio)

                        WTO, GATS mode 4 - classifying workers as services to be traded as part of trade agreements.  trading people.

                        See, you could care less about worker issues or real progressive causes such as trade and the corporate controlled migration agenda.  you cannot even answer these basic positions which are posted right here in this diary you are busy spamming.


                        by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:30:13 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  All I was saying is that someone who spends so (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          freespeech, Duke1676

          much time and energy immigrant bashing shouldn't get a free ride.
          When someone spends more time bashing Hillary, Reid and Pelosi, than they do Tancredo, or the Republicans, maybe we should be careful before we jump on their bandwagon.

          •  I have never read one comment anywhere (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BobOak, Hens Teeth, uscitizenvoter

            where Bob has bashed any immigrant.  You are off base and hijacking another diary.  

            No justice, no peace.

            by dkmich on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree with you. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              But I do see him, very often, supporting immigration positions that are indeed racist and anti-migrant, as well as opposing folks who speak out against those racist and anti-migrant positions, acts which cause a hell of a lot more human suffering than anything we could inflict upon each other at a blog.

              This isn't personal, it really isn't.  There is indeed a racist component to this argument here at Daily Kos.  To support Lou Dobbs or Tancredo (or their policies) is extremely questionable on a progressive Democratic blog, imo.  And racism does play a part in that.

              •  no (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                and when I see a racist post, note I never save it...I save the ones who are "no amnesty" Dems, which is a valid fraction on the Democratic population but mostly I save the people I happen to know are active in labor.  You have NO RIGHT to name call people who want a controlled immigration policy, none at ALL which is what you and this little ill-informed name calling gang does...on every single diary.  You show up in diaries on trade, you show up in diaries that are clearly, obviously Democratic positions within the Progressive caucus that I am working to promote in order to get passed.  You spam DEMOCRATIC worker oriented, AFL-CIO endorsed diaries.  You TR AFL-CIO bloggers.    

                And finally Lou Dobbs has on his show, over and over again so many economists and congressional representatives who's issues are ours....Dorgan, Bernie Sanders, Peter DeFazio, Sherrod Brown....he gives a platform for them to make aware the issues at hand....and yet in some dull haze you think is "activism", your only "great input" into a true Progressive, economic policy agenda is to name call that media outlet, which is the only media outlet for the Progressive caucus.

                Are you even aware of the Progressive caucus in the House and Senate? Do you even know who they are or what bills they are desperately trying to get even co-sponsored to save the United States economically?

                I think not.


                by BobOak on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:44:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  No, I don't agree. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BobOak, uscitizenvoter

                Are you saying that to be pro American worker is to be a racist?  Well if so, then I guess I qualify.  But if I'm a racist and I hate Mexicans because I am pro American worker, why do I want to go and live among them?  If being pro-American worker is xenophobic, why would I rather live almost anywhere instead of in the US? And who says it is not progressive to support unions and American workers?  Who gets to decide what is progressive and what isn't?  

                Can any of the I hate American workers and people who try to protect them tell me what makes us/them second class citizens and so totally expendable in our own country?  

                I think the cries of "racism" are straw man arguments used to change the subject from American workers who are getting screwed to why do you hate Mexicans.  It is untrue and unfair.  

                No justice, no peace.

                by dkmich on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 03:56:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Who has said someone is racist here (1+ / 1-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mariachi mama
                  Hidden by:

                  except boboak? He has a history of claiming to be called a racist. But I haven't seen him called a racist. But I do think he's anti immigrant. He claims he's not, but I think intelligent people can read his comments and also read between the lines.
                  As he troll rates away, he complains about being troll rated.
                  Ok boboak, if you're not anti immigrant, should any of the 12 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. become legal? Or should they all be rounded up and locked up and deported as soon as possible? I know you won't answer, or you don't think doing what you'd like to do to immigrants is anti immigrant.
                  And are you in support of legal immigration? Which immigration bills do you support? or do you just support anti immigrant bills? A direct answer would be nice. But you're probably answer by saying you're a victim of anti American racist attacks. Who'd you learn that from? Lou Dobbs (your apparent hero) or Tom Tancredo (the candidate who thinks like you)?

                •  You've had a chance to ... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... speak with Duke and read his diaries since you left this response to me.  I assume this part of our discussion is moot.  I left you a comment from your later conversation.

      •  what a lie (4+ / 0-)

        there is not one anti-immigrant, ethnic comment from me anywhere.  I note that all you can do is name call, ignoring the labor issues and economic details which I discuss.  

        by BobOak on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:51:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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