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View Diary: A Glimmer of Hope; fees increase on H-1B guest worker Visas (203 comments)

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  •  Maybe if you tried to work with Bob, (1+ / 0-)
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    actually I did

    During the last round of immigration reform legislation ...the horrible "Grand Compromise" bill last spring...Bob and I worked together a lot. Like 100's of hours. We shared info, did analysis of the legislation,  weeded through the almost 700 pages of bullshit that made up that bill...and came away totally agreeing the bill was garbage...we then worked together in opposition to it's passage.

    Then once the bill failed ...bob was right back to his same old self...right back to attacks..why? because I mentioned Lou Dobbs as part of the anti-immigrant media along with O'Riely, Rush this diary:

    Since then he has continued his one-man-war of troll-rating and flaming anything that remotely resembles a progressive immigration position.

    go check out the diary and the comments explains a lot.

    •  Thank you. (2+ / 0-)
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      Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

      I agree his troll rating is out of control.  You and I do not see eye to eye, but I find you very easy to talk to about the subject. Bob does need to calm down.  This is a very important issue to a Michigander, and I hate to see it turn into pie fights.  I will go check out the diary you linked.

      No justice, no peace.

      by dkmich on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 07:46:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  dkmich (3+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        Duke1676, trashablanca, Nightprowlkitty
        Hidden by:

        I hate to do this on Bob's diary, but he is totally out of control with the TRs, accusations and recommending racist posts, by known trolls. What is really sad about this, is that the cause he supports is valid and he has some good things to say. I used to rec his diaries and comments and thought he made a lot of good points, but he drives people away through his behaviour.

        Bob, if you read this, please take a step back and consider how you present yourself. You are driving potential allies away.

        Here is an example of uprating by bob

        i wouldn't bother with either one of you (1+ / 4-)
        Recommended by:BobOak
        Trollrated by:Eternal Hope, doinaheckuvanutjob, Dianna, Brahman Colorado

        by sooner on Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 12:10:10 AM MDT

        [ Parent ]

        Here is the whole thread, to put in context.

        There are many more examples I could post.

      •  he's lying (1+ / 0-)
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        yes not only did he try to repress a Dobbs report on professional Visas as well as insult Sirota who was interviewed on trade, but more importantly he uprates obvious haters who name call and joins in.  And his position is open border basically or no immigration policy whatsoever.

        by BobOak on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 12:58:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Two things in your diary that hit home. (3+ / 0-)
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      Duke1676, BobOak, Nightprowlkitty

      Nothing is mentioned addressing the neo-liberal free-trade policies that have been the root cause of much of the inter-hemispheric migration taking place today.  

       This is why I am so anti-Clinton.  Someone said above about bashing Hillary more than Bush being un-Democratic.  Well imo,Hillary and the DLC are un-Democratic.  They deserve to be bashed more than Bush because Bush is a Republican doing what Republicans do.  Hillary is suppose to be a Democrat, but she's not.  I feel robbed of my vote.

      All I can say to your next piece is, ain't it the truth - for everything we are trying to reform and/or change.  

      In order for any large scale movement demanding reform to be effective, a firm set of unified goals and expectations must be set. Rather than always reacting to what legislation has been presented to us, the movement must define a firm set of goals ...

      When I read your stuff, I don't find much if anything to disagree with. I am glad NPK introduced us; and I don't know why your positions are found so oppositional to Bob's by Bob.  

      The part about immigration that I mind the most is what the politicians turn it into.  If illegal immigrants get education, health care or other benefits in the US, I think that that is unfair.  Not because of color (would feel the same way if they were Irish)but because I am angry that our government won't support these programs at home.  So it is hard to understand why they should hand these benefits out to others when they won't hand them out at home.  Same is true when I listen to Bush talk about building Iraq.  He has no domestic agenda except to steal all of our money on our credit cards, and he wants me to find compassion for them so he can steal even more money from me.  

      Another immigration issue I think about is "taking cuts".  Like the story you posted about the young girl who had been here for 20 years, doing faithfully what she should and getting deported at the end.  Should people sneaking in in a mass large enough to be difficult to manage get to stay before her?  What about others who are still waiting in line to come?

      Another problem I have with the immigration rhetoric from politicians is the "we can't find and deport 12 million illegals".  I don't even have a wholesale opinion on whether or not they should be deported, but it pisses me off that the politicians babble that lie unchallenged.  If they can't deal with 12 million illegals, why do they think "finding and jailing 15 million illegal drug users" is a "good war" on drugs.   This remains me of the line of BS about not having the votes to end the war, when all they have to do is not even put it up for a vote.  They think we are totally stupid.  

      I read all the links you give me, and I really don't find you to be arbitrary, anti-American or anti-labor.  I am sorry you and Bob can't work together for change because this is an important issue for the country.  Job loss, unfair trade, and the increasing number of people on US soil are not going to go away anytime soon.  

      No justice, no peace.

      by dkmich on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:23:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you for reading my stuff (2+ / 0-)
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        Nightprowlkitty, mariachi mama

        I don't expect everyone to agree with everything I say...all I ask is that people are open enough to listen.

        We my never agree on certain aspects of this issue but at least the lines of communication can remain open and we can learn more about each others concerns.

        That sadly is the problem Bob. He shuts down all lines of communication with anyone who doesn't agree 100% with his positions ...and even more unfortunate, he'll side with those who are obviously approaching this issue from an angle of long as they      they take his side.

        •  full of shit Duke (1+ / 0-)
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          I cannot communicate with someone who endorses the TR gang and tries to repress facts with name calling as you do.  I cannot communicate with someone who cannot deal with economic realities of any kind...

          for example the only became nice because obviously you couldn't understand it, you couldn't understand how your illegals would never see the light of day for citizenship by the subtlety of the legal could care less about what such policy actually does to working simply needed someone who could read the legislation to help you.

          I note not a one of your little TR gang that follows you around could analyze even the first line of that what choice did you have but to turn to someone who actually has some understanding of the issues...

          unlike your little name calling gang.  Yet not once will you bother to point out your little name calling gang has no freakin' clue.  Nope you join right in there and you especially enjoy repressing information that is relevant to US labor.  

          by BobOak on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 01:15:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  your right Bob (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I can't understand legislation without coming to you to explain it you know how insane that sounds? Don't you realize that other people here actually read diaries, check links, have read my work for the last 3 years both here and at my site? You're acting nuts here need to get a grip.

            •  you did just that (1+ / 0-)
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              and you know it. You couldn't get the details on "merit" points of the real intent of the corporate lobbyists for cheap labor.  

              Your site?  You mean the one that promotes phony economic "reports" written by some "advocacy" group as real labor economics data?  uh huh.

              You cannot even handle it when a respected labor economics calls out some facts.  You even have Paul Krugman talking about the economic realities of illegal immigration but of course that would never make your site....nope, anything based in reality simply does not get discussed.  

              Your entire little name calling TR gang, not a single one can read a bill, never mind analyze it for the real intent, not a of course you encourage them to go after the people who can.  

              And of course you cannot even handle the complexities yourself, trying to name call me, claim I have positions I do not have and of course I do not have them because it is the details that are the policy, not your little LaBrea Tar Pits of absolutes that you put out there ...I guess for self grandiosity purposes.  


              by BobOak on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 10:43:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  whatever (0+ / 0-)

       didn't even have a copy of the bill until I gave it to you, you didn't know the current green card quotas. You thought it was 2mil a year because that's what Lou told you...I turned you on to the whole merit-system being a sham, all you were looking for was H1b indcreases. I only went to you because I wanted to know about certain aspects of tech training required of immigrants to get work visas, and you seemed to be the logical choice. ... so just drop it.

                I've got the e-mails, I know how it went down, don't make me argue this, you look like an ass.  

                •  threats again Duke? (1+ / 0-)
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                  Last time I recall you claimed that you were a big dude with big connections, you knew people in the blogs and you can get me banned in 2 seconds...

                  I have the threatening emails that you sent, letting me know if I state my opinion or write what I am active on...gee wiz, you have so much power you can just have me banned!
                  So, when it comes down to getting you cornered you try to silence me by threatening to have me banned.  Now isn't that so Democratic of you.

                  No, I already had the bill and was already analyzing it in detail.  

                  Now, who is the ass who tries to misrepresent what our group is, who we are, what are backgrounds are (a little uncool outing activity for ya!, gee I think there are only about 10 comments from you posting misinformation on who we actually as I recall that was supposedly an offense warranting banning), who we are associated with or where we stand or even what the concerns were in that bill.  

                  Nope, not a clue.  You don't even know what the F-4 is and obviously deny the AFL-CIO position on it.


                  by BobOak on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 01:22:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  no, you ripped a critical story (1+ / 0-)
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      that's what you do not realize, you ripped to shreds a report for US, by US with your absurd racist xenophobe rhetoric.  You tried to repress in the blogs, information we worked on and wanted out there in the MSM.  We got the report and you of course wrote yet another absurd "racist xenophobe" diary trying to repress that very segment so critical to STEM labor.

      and that was so rude, so outrageous and it is very difficult to get objective factual reporting in the here was a major accomplishment on a breaking story and here comes this idiotic blog posting claiming it's all "racist xenophobe" so no one would look at the real evidence, statistics.

      You directly attacked our cause, our issue and then tried to claim it's all "racist xenophobe" while the entire IT industry is under attack.  It means millions of jobs, families, careers.

      by BobOak on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 01:08:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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