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View Diary: THE HILL: Dems Face Revolt Over Free Trade In Advance of Vote (266 comments)

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  •  I disagree (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eugene, Pd, tecampbell, kyril, invisiblewoman

    Ron Paul's overall voting record on trade issues is more free trade than not despite individual votes on specific free trade agreements.  I would disagree that he is the voice for those "interested in jobs and hope and opportunity."

    •  paul is total free trade (0+ / 0-)

      He doesn't like deals because he favors no trade restrictions at all. If you want to have politics decide the price of imports oppose free trade. But why should the Fed government decide, for example,that steel consumers should pay steel producers more for steel? If the Dem party is for high tariffs and quotas kiss the Dem party good bye. I'll vote for the Dem nominee to end the war, but are the Kossacks really devoted to killing international trade? Which products should be protected by tariffs? Should Lou Dobbs decide or Kos or should US citizens choose?

      •  Tarriffs work, period. Freemarkets don't. (6+ / 0-)

        There's boatloads of historical record of tarriffs working.

        Sharing and Caring are for Commies! They should be illegal.

        by k9disc on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 12:19:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's right! (0+ / 0-)

          Signed,

          Senator Smoot

          Senator Hawley

          •  Yet Japan is a very protectionist society (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlueGenes

            As is China
            As is India
            As is Taiwan
            As is Indonesia
            As is much of Europe
            etc.
            etc.
            etc.

            And they are all teetering on the brink of Depression no doubt.

            Please.

            <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

            by superscalar on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 11:48:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Belarus, maybe? (0+ / 0-)

              Where in Europe is still protectionist?

              Shouldn't Germany be bankrupt?  For a couple decades now, they have had free trade with Spain, Portugal and Greece.  Now, countries like Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany have free trade with Romania and Poland.  Europe should be a chapter out of Lord Of The Flies by now, right?

              •  Apples and Oranges (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                k9disc

                You're comparing trade policies between countries that have similar labor and environmental protections with trade between countries that don't. If there is no level playing field, its a race to the bottom. In America, we have standards that force companies to pay workers (relatively) well and avoid (relatively) desecrating the environment. The countries we have 'free-trade' policies with China, Indonesia, much of Latin America, don't have these standards. I don't know how you can be so blind to this.

                NAFTA, WTO, et al were originally sold as a way to increase standards in countries we trade with, while the real effect is that they are decreasing our standard of living and threaten to penalize our standards as being barriers to trade.

                Stop. Drinking. Corporate. Koolaid.

                This ballot is loaded, and I'm not afraid to use it.

                by BlueGenes on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 12:40:00 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're against corporate welfare? (0+ / 0-)

                  In theory, tariff levels could be calculated to maximize employment and revenue for the government.

                  But you know full well that's not how it works.

                  Tariff rates and trade agreements will become law so as to maximize the benefit to congressmen who get to go on 3 week long fact finding missions to Bora Bora to research Tahitian tariff rates.

                  I'll take my chances with individual consumers decided how to spend their own money.

                  •  Thank You for the GOP Talking Point (0+ / 0-)

                    I'll take my chances with individual consumers decided how to spend their own money

                    Why don't we get rid of all taxes and all government while were at it?

                    In fact, your arguement ties in well with this argument that the nation-state is inherently DOA.

                    You sound more like a Republican than you realize, but I'll bet you don't think that's a bad thing either.

                    This ballot is loaded, and I'm not afraid to use it.

                    by BlueGenes on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 01:54:31 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Like Pat Buchanan, Phyllis Schlafly & Lou Dobbs? (0+ / 0-)

                      These days, the Corporate Wing of the Republican Party is in charge.

                      But the Republicans are the party of Smoot-Hawley.

                      And they are the party with many prominent members who don't think that Americans should be trusted to spend their own money as they see fit.

                  •  Yes, I'm Against Corporate Welfare. eom (0+ / 0-)

                    This ballot is loaded, and I'm not afraid to use it.

                    by BlueGenes on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 01:59:07 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Free trade boils down (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hens Teeth, numen, BlueGenes
        to goods being produced by the poorest people on the planet,
        brought to market by the wealthiest,
        and purchased by the greediest.

        Next question ?

        Abandon ideology. Instead, tell the truth. Always.

        by slowheels on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 04:02:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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