Skip to main content

View Diary: Schumer Op-Ed:  A Pitiful Defense For His Mukasey Vote (228 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  That "if the law were in place".. (17+ / 0-)

    ...line is especially insidious.  Last night on Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan was leading the charge on this:  "If Congress would just pass a law saying that waterboarding is torture, that would solve everything."

    There's at least three problems with that.  First of all, the law already prohibits torture, and it's universally agreed outside the Bush Administration and the right-wing noise machine that waterboarding IS torture.

    Secondly, if you pass a law now that explicitly prohibits torture, they can claim that it wasn't illegal before that.

    Thirdly, the Bush Administration ignores any laws it doesn't like anyway.

    Sorry, Chuck, not buying it.

    •  Bush would just hit it with a signing statement. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      david78209, ER Doc

      He'd say that he'd obey a no-torture law only in so far as it doesn't conflict with his authority to execute his duties as commander-in-chief to act at the behest of national security.  Blam, no-torture law rendered a waste of time and paper.

      That is, of course, in addition to the fact that the Bush administration doesn't consider the torturous crap they do to be torture.

      •  Aside from the fact that signing statements... (0+ / 0-)

        ... don't really negate law, he can sign all the statements he likes.

        I fear, however, if this continues it will be taken as a matter of course.

        We need to force a showdown - make signing statements illegal.

        When war is considered to be more noble than peace - we have lost everything.

        by feloneouscat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 06:59:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No they do not negate law (0+ / 0-)

          but they do allow him to circumvent the law, bend it and reshape it to his whim. THat is what we have legislators for, they are supposed to debate every sentence in a proposed law with the aid of supreme court. They decide the exact nature and the limit of a law, all the president does is either agree with it or not, but he is not supposed to add to it.

          Sadly, our legislators spend more time campaining then debating proposed bills. And so we have now a U.S senator too afraid to deny a nomination because he is afraid the president will just navigate around it.

          "We need an energy bill that encourages consumption." --Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002-GWB

          by meatwad420 on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 08:14:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Is there a list? (0+ / 0-)

      it's universally agreed outside the Bush Administration and the right-wing noise machine that waterboarding IS torture

      Is there a list someplace of what is and what is not universally agreed upon here?  I am not real knowledgable regarding various techiques and I don't know much about "waterboarding" besides the vague descriptions I have seen.  How much of this stuff that goes on in places like Gitmo: shackling, no blankets, no Koran, etc.   is universally agreed upon as being tourture.  Are there varying levels of "waterboarding" ie from shoving someones head in a toilet until he passes out to splashing a small glass of water in their face?

    •  Dangerous precedent (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      peraspera, 417els, meatwad420
      Passing a law to rule a specific thing torture also implies that only those things specifically ruled torture qualify.

      So they come up with a new variant and that isn't torture until Congress finds out about it and adds it to the law. Not a good idea.

      "We can't shove bamboo splinters under people fingernails anymore. Try toenails instead."

      •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

        the perverted right wing would love for the legislator to define the tortorous aspects of waterboarding. Then all they would have to do is navigate around those aspects as you said.

        "We need an energy bill that encourages consumption." --Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002-GWB

        by meatwad420 on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 08:16:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site