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View Diary: Subway Attack; Skirmish from the War On/For Christmas? (242 comments)

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  •  You mean we aren't already (20+ / 0-)

    tearing each other (and the world) apart over our "gods"?

    Do I misunderstand or are you implying a story like this shouldn't get any air time?

    "Mankind must remember that peace is not God's gift to his creatures. It is our gift to each other." Elie Wiesel

    by witchamakallit on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:05:17 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What I am saying is that (5+ / 0-)

      when we quit focusing on those items which pit us against one another, and start focusing on the people who want to strip us of our freedoms altogether, we will be better-equipped to deal with those who inappropriately try to use those freedoms.

      Reality leaves a lot to the imagination--John Lennon

      by o the umanity on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:12:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  WTF?? (9+ / 0-)

        How will ignoring hate crimes help os focus on "the people who want to strip us of our freedoms?" These are Hannity-heads and Limbaugh-listeners feeling feisty on crystal meth, spoiling for a fight. They need to be stopped. End of story.

      •  The two are not mutually exclusive (7+ / 0-)

        And suggesting we pretend or ignore racial bigotry is what Republicans suggest. You said quit focusing on the bigots, I strongly disagree. They must be exposed and shunned.

        WE need to expose bigotry AND the politicians and others who want to reduce our civil rights.

        01-20-09: THE END OF AN ERROR

        by kimoconnor on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:58:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I suggest nothing of the sort (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I use the word focus, not ignore.

          Quit focusing on that which clearly, obviously divides us ALL, and start focusing on removing those who allow policy that provides the ability for such ignorance to flourish.

          We keep fighting one another, while the tyranny continues. The tyrants sit back and chuckle, watching us tear each other apart over our gods, while they continue to do their evil, dirty, disgusting work, unencumbered by good people, too busy fighting each other over those gods to pay heed to WHY the intolerance exists to begin with.

          If you can't grasp the concept of "keep your eye on the ball", I can't help you. I'm sorry you disagree. This is not about "ignoring religious intolerance" and IS about "holding the tyrants responsible for the current atmosphere of intolerance" accountable.

          Reality leaves a lot to the imagination--John Lennon

          by o the umanity on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:14:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not to nit pick (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ChaosMouse, word is bond

            but you did say QUIT focusing on this.

            And there is a difference between fighting each other, and putting some sunshine on the reality of bigotry in this nation.

            Again, I simply do not think it is wrong to focus on both issues at the same time. And we can do this without fighting each other, just educating people on what is going on.

            01-20-09: THE END OF AN ERROR

            by kimoconnor on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:41:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I think you're half right but not in this case... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, cfk, kimoconnor

        Yes, I do think there are times when we need to focus less on "differences" and focus more on, as you say, "people who want to strip us of our freedoms all together."  That may be the correct response to petty arguments that get us nowhere.  (There are any number of examples: protracted fights over holiday decorations that are really just neighbors venting their annoyance with each other; people being "offended" by either Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, just respond however you want and move on; people who get overly excited about unintentionally insensitive language, like calling elderly people racist because they use "Oriental" instead of Asian because that WAS the common term 50 years ago and they just don't know better, blah blah, I could go on.)

        This is NOT the case here, however.  These people were ATTACKED. That IS the kind of thing that has to be stopped; deliberate racist antangonists ARE the enemy.
        There is a DIFFERENCE you see what I mean???

        It is no worse, because I write of it. It would be no better, if I stopped my most unwilling hand.

        by ChaosMouse on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:23:46 AM PST

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        •  Gosh (0+ / 0-)

          Thanks for speaking for all Asians everywhere and telling us what we should and shouldn't do and how we should and shouldn't feel. Whatever would we do without you?

          That a man can stand up. - Johnny Tremain

          by lirtydies on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:40:37 AM PST

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          •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

            Who's "telling you what to feel"?

            I was using a random example of what IS non-productive discourse.  Calling someone a "racist" when they unintentionally do something insensitive because they don't KNOW any better is hardly productive.  

            I chose the Asian example because my own elderly parents, who are strong Democrats, spent decades of their lives using the term Oriental, because that's what everyone used, and they will still occasionally forget that the now-prefered term is Asian.  The difficulty of remembering to use a new term after about 60 years of using the old one hardly makes them racists.

            Elderly Democrats using the "wrong" term is just one small example among gazillions of the sort of thing that should be met with a polite correction/explantion in good faith, not with a divisive accusations that undermine the left.  There IS a difference between things like unintentional insensitivity by well-meaning people, and actual intentional racism.

            It is no worse, because I write of it. It would be no better, if I stopped my most unwilling hand.

            by ChaosMouse on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 05:29:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  This IS focusing on those who would deny freedom (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChaosMouse, cfk

        As far as I'm concerned, O'Reilley's "club a non-Christian for Jesus" thuglets are as much an arm of the Republican Party as the Hitler Youth was an arm of the Third Reich; as much as the Klan was an arm of the Dixie Segregationist State Governments.

        They are the ground troops in the Republican War Against Freedom, there to do what the police aren't allowed to be seen doing. Their mission is to crawl out from under rocks under cover of darkness and instil fear into the hearts of Jews, Blacks, Gays, Muslims, Immigrants, Union Members, Intellectuals, or whatever scapegoat du jour has been designated by the Right Wing as the "cause of all your problems".

        The first task is for all of us to help the designated oppressed to defend themselves against brute thugs. Second only to that is to shine the light of truth on them, so they can't hide.

        "...And I woulda got away with it, if it hadn't been for that meddling Kos!" ---attributed to Tom DeLay

        by AdmiralNaismith on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:44:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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