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View Diary: Donna Brazille hits it OUT OF THE PARK (222 comments)

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  •  not for nothing... (none)
    but colorblind societies aren't the goal that we should aim for.

    colorblind /= non-racist.

    •  I think what you mean is (none)
      a lot of what is called being color-blind really isn't.

      A society that really didn't notice color at all, that deep down all the way through made no difference between people on the basis of the color of their skin -- no social difference, no class difference, no difference at all -- pretty much by definition couldn't be called racist.

      But of course that's not a description of American society. The closest you can get to color-blind is not talking about the racial differences that everyone is still intensely aware of. Not mentioning the elephant in the corner of the room is not the same as having no elephant.

      If a landslide falls in the bit bucket... was there an election?

      by Canadian Reader on Wed Aug 04, 2004 at 08:26:02 PM PDT

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      •  actually... (none)
        No, I said what I meant.

        A society that never had noticed color might be colorblind - but that's not our society.  Our society does and to claim to be "color-blind" is (1) to ignore the accomplishments of races/ethnicities, etc and (2) is blatantly false.  We do see color, for better or worse, consciously or subconsciously.  

        While I respect your opinion, as a person of color and someone who knows his stuff on this subject - please don't ever tell me what you think I mean.

        •  Okay, you mean what you mean. (none)
          But let me note, as an outside observer, that the last line of your post is a perfect demonstration of my point (and I think yours, as well), that no-one in American society is color-blind.

          If what you're saying is, "You can't get there (to a truly color-blind society) from here (contemporary American society)," well, unfortunately you may be right. I hope you're not, because if you are, then the US is doomed to be raggedly on edge about race forever. It will be a real pity if that's so. What, never? Even your great-grandchildren cannot escape?

          I do believe that a truly color-blind society would be a good thing. But I also agree that pretending you're already there is foolish and counter-productive. At best it is magical thinking -- "what I tell you three times is true" -- and at worst it is used maliciously as cover for reversing gains that have already been made.

          If a landslide falls in the bit bucket... was there an election?

          by Canadian Reader on Wed Aug 04, 2004 at 10:59:10 PM PDT

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          •  hm (none)
            I am, in fact, saying that America can never get to a colorblind place and that's how it should be.  The thing with Americans (and Westerners to include them all) is that too often we see things as either/or.  Just because we don't get to a colorblind place doesn't mean we won't get to a decent place in regards to racism.

            I very much echo the words of my senator, John Edwards, who said we need to have the race discussion everywhere.  Usually liberals merely say that they're not racist/they're colorblind so it's not an issue.  But that's not the point.  

            Much peace~

            •  Now this is interesting: (none)
              generally, on issues of race, ethnicity, and diversity, Canadians (who claim to possess a "gorgeous mosaic") take American me to task for living in a land with the inferior goal of "melting pot."

              They laud their mosaic, which doesn't require an assimilationist ethos and celebrates the unique accomplishments of each participating ethnicity in that large and chilly land. And they sit there over the foamy caps of their Molson's and lambaste me for having the temerity to live in a place that offers only assimilation and whiteness-as-colorblindness!

              My, how it sounds like the tables have turned...

              "Nothing is built on stone; all is built on sand, but we must build as if the sand were stone." - Jorge Luis Borges

              by adamgreenfield on Thu Aug 05, 2004 at 12:02:27 AM PDT

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              •  You make a good point. (none)
                If there comes a time when the only difference anyone perceives between blacks and whites in the US is that they make different, equally valued, contributions to the richness of American culture -- like Ukranians and Chinese in Canada -- then I will be very, very happy for you. That would be a perfectly fine place to be.

                Of course, we both know that's not any easier for the US to get to than a truly colorblind society.

                And, you know, personally? I dislike beer, Molson's or otherwise.

                If a landslide falls in the bit bucket... was there an election?

                by Canadian Reader on Thu Aug 05, 2004 at 12:51:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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