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View Diary: Sen. Reid is Setting Us Up on FISA (264 comments)

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  •  But according to thereisnospoon (26+ / 0-)

    . . . there's a method to all of this madness.

    (View his recommended diary to see what I'm talking about.)

    See, the Democrats are doing all of this in order to destroy the Republicans.

    It's not because they are bought and paid for by corporations and believe in a ruling class agenda as much as the Republicans do.

    No, it's all part of some great, longterm electoral strategy the Dems are pursuing to ensure electoral victory.

    •  And the following is such a crock of shit: (47+ / 0-)

      "The reason Reid is doing this in a way that requires 60 is because he wants to pass something.  And the only way he can pass something is to pass exactly what the president wants...which includes immunity."

      Meet dishonest excuse #346 as to why the Democrats play along with the Republican/pro-corporate agenda and refuse to oppose Bush.

      I can't decide which is more tiresome . . . the Democrats repeated "capitulations" (i.e., complicity) with the Administration or the continuous manner in which so many people on this site continue to swallow and take seriously their DISHONEST rationalizations for them.

      Someone remind me again . . . . what was Tom Daschle's dishonest excuse for giving Bush authorization to go to war against Iraq?

      At the risk of repeating myself, I'll post Gore Vidal again:

      "[t]here is only one party in the United States, the Property Party...and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt—until recently... and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties."

      •  There is a difference between the 2 parties (22+ / 0-)

        when you go to the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

        There is little difference, however, between Reid and the Republicans.

        "It's the planet, stupid."

        by FishOutofWater on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:58:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (6+ / 0-)

        Why are democrats sending us down the river?  I am seriously considering boycotting the presidential election instead of voting against a republican like I usually do.  Is the a new democratic president actually going to reverse the damage Bush has done?  I'm beginning to wonder, the candidates' protest against Ried's shinanigans aside.
        If the damn fool electorate of this country want to see more of Bush by voting in another Republican, then let them do it.  Maybe the full extent of the ultimate police state and the rounding up of the little brown people, liberals, and other undesirables is what it'll take to finally teach them; or not.  We (they) get what we (they) deserve.


        Well, I guess I don't know what you mean by "equal justice under the law." - Bushy McSpokesperson

        by gatorcog on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:11:55 AM PST

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        •  Well, you know, it took Germany (5+ / 0-)

          a devastating defeat in 1945 before the Germans came to their collective senses . . .

          •  Some of us are good Germans now (5+ / 0-)

            and the US is the new USSR.  The repressive and authoritarian society just changes faces and names as it moves around the globe.
            If the majority of our population opposes the current rule of the few, according to polls, the voting method is going to take a long time to reverse the trends in our damaged country, if ever.  Consultation and compromise has been built into our system, but it's not working.

            Well, I guess I don't know what you mean by "equal justice under the law." - Bushy McSpokesperson

            by gatorcog on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:07:35 AM PST

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        •  Don't boycott (7+ / 0-)

          vote down the ticket, write in someone if you have to, but don't stay home. Voting is the only form of protest left, assuming they are counted, which is a large assumption.

          •  Voting is protest? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            North Country Dem, kyril

            Voting for (or against) a president is ratifying what's already been decided by the rulers, which includes the MSM-propoganda-corporate complex.  Protesting, in my view, comes to more deicive and shocking means as carried out by the majority of the concerned citizenry, not at the voting booth.  
            Voting at the federal level and protest are no way near the same thing.  You are confused.
            Besides, you contradict yourself in your own post.

            Well, I guess I don't know what you mean by "equal justice under the law." - Bushy McSpokesperson

            by gatorcog on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:00:49 AM PST

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          •  Voting only form or protest left? (6+ / 0-)

            I'm sorry, but if voting for one of the 2 Republican parties is a form of "protest", I'd rather protest the old-fashioned way, taking to the streets!

            If you want to see what a real protest is like, you have to look at the recent mass actions in Olympia, Washington for 10 days offered massive mobilization to block the offloading of war supplies from Navy ships returning from Iraq:


            This is the kind of protest that gets the attention of the military/industrial/congressional complex, not rubberstamping another compromised candidate of the 2 war parties in Congress!

        •  I doubt it. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rhfactor, gatorcog, Jbeaudill, kyril

          Is the a new democratic president actually going to reverse the damage Bush has done?  I'm beginning to wonder

          The coup has already happened.  I don't think we're going to see serious change until the American people really see what is happening and demand it--no matter who wins.

          I think Edwards sees the seriousness of the problem, and Obama might be made to see it, but even if one of those two becomes president, the system is so rigged that, even a  president who sees the problem may not be able to make much headway.

          I hope I'm wrong, and certainly if there is a real turnover in the Congress and real Democrats get more power, there is hope.  But I'm not that optimistic right now.

          "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell

          by Boston Boomer on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 09:25:34 AM PST

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          •  This expresses my point of view as well. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Boston Boomer

            Though I have my issues with Edwards, I am beginning to think he has the most to gain in terms of actually delivering on his promises made to the American People. And since people, all people, act based on what's in it for them, I think Edwards' motives for wanting to be President are sounding more and more clean than the psychological drives of the other 2 in contention:

            (1) = entitlement and legacy
            (2) = longterm career and enjoys "statesman" politics, in same way Bill Clinton does.

            Neither of those 2 motivations spell satisfaction for American people, because those itches get scratches irrespective of what outcome has been achieved in 4 or 8 years of office. Just being in office is reward enough.

            But regardless, even with the least objectionable Dem in office, I believe the sun has set on America version 1.0 ... and at least a portion of progressive thinkers, leaders, activists should think of focusing on what RichM (in a post upthread) calls "an exit strategy" -- sicne we are no longer a govt of the People, by the People, for the people.

            There will need to be tracks running in parallel.

            (1) Activists who like electoral politics will stay engaged with pushing candidates, and ideally a good percentage of them have really internalized Dean's long-term strategy to seed the next generation of Dem majority -- real progressives for whom we clear a path to help wipe out incumbency.

            (2) and another set need to be removed from the day to day of Democratic electoral politics, and work on a systems approach for re-engineering American Government, starting from square 1.

            -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

            by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:46:05 AM PST

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            •  I'll weigh in with Boston Boomer and rhfactor as (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Boston Boomer

              I see Edwards as the only one who will truly bring a fundamental change, which we need. An intelligent populist with ideals.  I haven't been for him in the past but after watching the two debates this week, month of reading and watching markets and reading Kos for about 1.5 years, I think Edwards is the only one that could really deliver a chance to bring change in America; I'll be watching him with a different eye now.

              In youth we learn, in age we understand.

              by Jbeaudill on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:12:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Yup... (13+ / 0-)

        I once had a colleague who told me, "The difference between the two parties is that both are driving towards socialism - the Dems are driving faster and the Republicans are trying to slow the process."  But the truth is "Both parties are driving towards fascism, the Republicans are at full throttle and the Dems are trying to sugar coat it."

        I am really starting to agree with the above poster - if we can't get this government to work for us, then we should all be looking for a government that will.  We already live in a society where there is no coporate loyalty - we are basically whores to the highest bidder at the time.  I think loyalty to nation will become as fungible.

        "Frankly, you epitomize weak. Your every pore exudes feebleness. You *are* surrender monkeys." - Meteor Blades to Capitulation Dems

        by RichM on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:14:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Already has: see Haliburton, Chevron, Chemical (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rhfactor, Jbeaudill, kyril

          companies, et als.  They move to offshore postal boxes to avoid taxes, with the permission of their most favorite employees - Congress - and pledge allegiance to the market, which they control, and which they are ruining.  Corporations, both business corporations and political corporations such as the Republican Party have told congress that whatever they do is secret and confidential because it is a trade secret.  
              The repugs tell Congress that they do not have to honor any suponae because Georgi Porgy told them not to.  A federal court order to preserve election records in Ohio is massively disobeyed by three quarters of the county governments, without any penalty.  What, subpoena means "under penalty"? Oh, well!!.  Oh, they were accidents.  So many accidents in the halls of the voting section of the Ohio counties.  Military officers are told by their commanders to refuse to testify before Congress.  What, Congress is given the duty to make the rules for the governance of the Armed Forces?  Where is that.  Oh, the Constitution.  How Quaint.
              In every case, and many, many more, the executive branch is seizing plenary power to take over the authority and duties of the other branches of government, and doing so succeessfully.  Georgi Porgy gives speeches that assert that Congress' sole duties is to pass the bills he wants and to give hime the money he wants, and no one says, "Hey, wait a minute."  The TV and newspapers treat such outrageous demands as business as usual.  They don't need a Reichstag fire, they have crooked, spineless "representatives and "journalists" living in the cave of WashinGton DC.  Our Reichstag fire has happened, the SA is formed as Blackwater, and the millions of dollars and weapons "lost" in Iraq are probably in an underground vault in Mycock, North Carolina.
              Now, for the tin foil hat thing.  I speculate that Bush told Reid and Pelosi that if he was allowed to serve out his term without impeachment, he would not invade Iran, and not try to pull a violent coup.   He gets to try a velvet coup, while the Congress waits with baited breath, hoping that  January 09 comes first.

          Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

          by StrayCat on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:52:40 AM PST

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        •  RichM, I am not familiar with you as poster here (0+ / 0-)

          but I sure do agree with your mile high assessment of the ground ands terrain below. Keep up the analysis + corrective action plan thinking.

          -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

          by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:49:42 AM PST

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    •  LOL (8+ / 0-)

      That's the best they can come up with, pitty them.

      In related news, Dana Perino said the DOJ would not enforce the congressional contempt citations. DOJ doesn't even bother to speak for itself, it doesn't have to.

      We are so screwed.

    •  They are doing this because they're (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      farleftcoast, StrayCat

      weak and because they're stupid. Do they think the American people even know what's going on?  That is the idiocy of their actions - the media paints the Dems as weak, they are now talking about Nancy and Harry beating each other up, and they know NOTHING about Bush's part in this.  They are listening to Bush and Too Much Cappucino Perino say that the Dems are the problem!  Do they really think this "politics as ususal" is working?  If they do, then I have to call them stupid.  Nothing is getting done... more crimes are being committed, Bush has signed that stupid agreement with Maliki without even getting them involved in it, and Bush looks like the winner! This may be their political strategy because they know what's going on, but 90% of Americans don't know and don't care.

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