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View Diary: Do You Believe Kiriakou? (184 comments)

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  •  Torture is very effective, (7+ / 0-)

    not in producing truthful testimony, but in getting the torture victims to testify what the torturers and/or their bosses want.  Stalin's secret police were well aware of this fact.

    In this case, the torture produced testimony that the 9/11 Commission used to back up the official account of 9/11.

    Only, surprise, surprise!  Not only have videotapes of the torture been destroyed, but there were never any transcripts of the interrogations in the first place. Why do you suppose that is?

    The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

    by lysias on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 08:38:46 AM PST

    •  Exactly. People are not getting this. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lysias, srkp23, chimpwatch, irate, Fireshadow

      We told them we wanted them to admit to ties between Iraq and al Qaeda, because that was the sales pitch to the American people for war.  There were no ties.  The victims told the truth.  The truth did not stop the torture, because the truth would not give an excuse to invade Iraq.  So we kept torturing them, until they "admitted" the specific lie we wanted them to "admit".  Then, we used what we forced them to lie about as the basis for the invasion and occupation.      

      "From war, corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption follows, until all wealth is aggregated, and the Republic is destroyed." Lincoln

      by PJ Jefferson on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 08:46:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Torture does not work.  Period.
        Torture is more for the torturers to corroborate information already decided (by the torturers themselves) than it is to provide new revelatory info.
        Torture is not a way to get info.  Period.
        Kiriakou is a liar.
        And now, probably a very rich liar.

        I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

        by Lilyvt on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:15:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Also, much is being made of the fact (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lysias, Fireshadow

      that we waterboard our own guys so that they are prepared for such an experience if they are captured. However, such training vs the reality is the same difference in basic training for the military and actually being in combat. In training, conditions are controlled as much as possible and there is little chance of death or injury (comparatively speaking) as opposed to actual combat situations.
      With waterboard training you know that you can stop it at any time and the people doing it will stop if it becomes too much for you. In real life you have no control over anything and no certainty that the torturers will stop or that they will not allow you to drown.

      BTW didn't anyone ever develop aspiration peumonia from waterboarding? That would be another reason to not do it; you might accidently kill off your source with an unintended infection.

      •  Not sure about pneumonia, but I'm pretty sure (0+ / 0-)

        waterboarding has resulted in some deaths through heart attack and stroke.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 05:10:09 PM PST

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      •  Monsters find it amusing to watch (0+ / 0-)

        their victims suffer with disease and infections.  Because they know the information they seek is a lie. They have no need or interest in the victim's health or well being...
        and every interest in letting him die before he reveals the truth.
        He is there to serve the purpose of authoring the propaganda that the Monsters want to fabricate as  reality.  

        There is no "getting" real information from torture, only fabricating evidence to justify their neocon sins of lust for power, wealth, prejudice, bigotry, and denial.
        All this while the victim goes on suffering the vengance and hate at the whims of the monsters who keep them.
        How has  America fallen so low...

        Pay attention, they're lying!:

        by Fireshadow on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:13:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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