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View Diary: Why I Made the Change (148 comments)

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  •  "Change agent" (0+ / 0-)

    And you write this in reaction to what mike just wrote? That Hillary is now for "fair trade" over "free trade?"

    She is arguing against the very policy she supported and promoted!

    Hillary's campaign slogan should be, "Can I get a do-over on that?"

    •  No, Bob, you're missing the point... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ghost2, phoenixdreamz, SaneSoutherner

      Hillary obviously learned from ealier mistakes, and she's wiser now than Bill and Hillary were in 1993. No one's perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. What sets Hillary apart is that she's learned from them, and she knows what needs to be done and how to do it NOW.

      Get to know The Hillary I Know... And come see me at The Liberal OC! :-)

      by atdnext on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 04:43:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, please... (0+ / 0-)

        What sets Hillary apart is that she's learned from them (her mistakes), and she knows what needs to be done and how to do it NOW.

        Case in point:

        • AUMF vote (which she refuses to apologize for)
        • Kyl-Lieberman (that had her siding with Lieberman and Cheney)

        I guess she doesn't learn from her mistakes every time. Just some mistakes. And especially not about the ones that pertain to war and putting our fellow citizens' lives in harm's way.

        •  Bob, do you know what's coming next? (3+ / 0-)

          Well, here 'ya go... Wait for it...

          PFTTTTTTTTTTT!!

          Go write your own candidate diary. Thanks. :-)

          Get to know The Hillary I Know... And come see me at The Liberal OC! :-)

          by atdnext on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 04:59:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  and on KL there (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          atdnext, SaneSoutherner

          were plenty of other Senators like Durbin and Levin supporting it.  Wes Clark himself says her opponents are misrepresenting the sctual content of Kyl Lieberman and I agree.  On the AUMF, the point was to get the inspectors into Iraq.  If we had not used the threat of force, we never would have gotten the inspectors in.  Bush broke his promise to play this one straight.  I feel that a lot of people on the left don't understand that the threat of force is often an essential tool.  One has to know how to use the threat as a way to avoid actual confrontation.  Using the threat of force to head off problems is one of the most important parts of police work, and diplomacy often works much the same way.

          The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

          by mikepridmore on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 05:09:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't care who else voted for it! (0+ / 0-)

            They're all idiots for backing that piece of crap.

            And spare me the Wes Clark talk. Number one, he is a long-time Clinton sycophant. Number two, remember when he had some credibility on Iran? He had to spin so hard to try and cover Hillary's ass on K-L that he screwed himself into the Arkansas dirt.

            •  And we don't care to talk about it... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaneSoutherner

              When Obama didn't even bother to vote. Hillary at least worked on the Armed Services Cmte. to weaken K-L, and she then cosponsored Jim Webb's bill to prevent Iran War...

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Get to know The Hillary I Know... And come see me at The Liberal OC! :-)

              by atdnext on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 05:21:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Clinton is the ONLY Dem presidential candidate to (0+ / 0-)

                ... vote FOR K-L.

                The only one. She stands alone.

                And, of course, in true Clinton triangulation fashion, she signed onto Webb's bill which was going nowhere and everyone knew it.

                How embarrassing.

            •  Screwed himself (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaneSoutherner

              into the Arkansas dirt?  That's a little over the top isn't it?  So you're saying that Kyl Lieberman did authorize Bush to go to war?  Care to prove that?  And that Hillary co-sponsoring the Webb amendment to be sure Bush has to get authorization from congress before going to war with Iran counts for nothing?  

              The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

              by mikepridmore on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 05:36:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hillary signed onto the Webb amendment AFTER (0+ / 0-)

                ... Kyl-Lieberman in classic Clinton triangulation fashion.

                It's not about "authorizing to go to war." What it does is damage her in a general election should she be the nominee and should Cheney decide to bomb the IRG under the pretense of the IRG being part of attacks on Americans in Iraq.

                She will be mute.

                •  You've got it wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                  Hillary has been saying no war with Iran without specific congressional authorization since at least February.  Check the date here.  And what dirt will you say Madeleine Albright is screwing herself into?

                  The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

                  by mikepridmore on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 05:55:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And when did Webb introduce his amendment? (0+ / 0-)

                    And when did Clinton sign onto it?

                    •  Yes, that amendment (0+ / 0-)

                      came afterwards.  But you're the one who said she signed onto it just to make up for the KL vote.  You have to give her credit for at least giving lip service, and I think it was more than that, to the idea that an explicit congressional approval was needed months before the Webb amendment.  If you thought that the Iranians were a problem in Lebanon and Iraq and in other places and if you thought that labeling the IRG as a terrorist organization would help bring pressure on them to lessen their interference in those places,  then the KL vote could be the right thing to do and mean more than just about Iraq.  And, although you pooh poohed the statement about other smart and usually trustworthy Senators voting for KL, I think their view is a legitimate one to hold and that you are being overly cynical.  You seem intent, and occasionally irrationally so, on maintaining your view that Hillary is a warmongering corporate sellout who polltests every move.  No explanation, no matter how sensible, deters you from always going back to that cynicism.

                      The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

                      by mikepridmore on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 08:29:49 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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