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View Diary: Another JAG Officer Resigns Over Bush Torture Policy (287 comments)

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  •  Does not compute (22+ / 0-)

    ...will now go into private practice and live happily ever after...except for a never-ending nagging feeling of having betrayed the trust of his fellow officers.

    Doing the right thing = betraying trust? Standing up and speaking out and resigning because of a moral position against torture = betraying trust? If such a trust is betrayed by his stand, it was not worthy of loyalty to begin with.

    If he did the same thing in the Iranian, or Cuban, or Venezuelan, or North Korean, or Syrian military, he'd be reconstituted into a can of dog food.

    The argument that "if this was a horrible bloody-handed totalitarian government, he'd be in trouble" does not hold water, ever. It holds water like a sieve. How do people even make this argument? So we aren't as bad as the absolute worst end of the scale possible, and as a result we are allowed to do everything just about almost up to that point? That does not compute. By comparison, it's like saying if the man down the street is a multiple rapist, it's okay for me to shoplift, or commit armed robbery. I mean, so long as I'm not a murder or a rapist, it's okay if I steal, right?

    Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

    by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:19:14 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Computing... (0+ / 0-)

      I respect your opinion, as I'm sure you respect mine.
      I disagree with yours, as I'm sure you disagree with mine.
      These facts remain:
      ...he will go into private practice, as he should, as that's his profession.
      ...some of his fellow officers will disagree with his stand, as that is their personal perogative.
      ...if he did the same thing in a repressive regime, he would probably be punished.

      I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

      by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:32:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We court-martialed for waterboarding in 'Nam (15+ / 0-)

        As Commander Williams pointed out:

        Thank you, General Hartmann, for finally admitting the United States is now part of a long tradition of torturers going back to the Inquisition.
        In the middle ages, the Inquisition called waterboarding "toca" and used it with great success. In colonial times, it was used by the Dutch East India Company during the Amboyna Massacre of 1623.
        Waterboarding was used by the Nazi Gestapo and the feared Japanese Kempeitai. In World War II, our grandfathers had the wisdom to convict Japanese Officer Yukio Asano of waterboarding and other torture practices in 1947, giving him 15 years hard labor.
        Waterboarding was practiced by the Khmer Rouge at the infamous Tuol Sleng prison. Most recently, the U.S. Army court martialed a soldier for the practice in 1968 during the Vietnam conflict.

        So you're saying that he was wrong to point this out?  Or should he have been "only following orders", like the guys at Nuremberg?

        (By the way:  Got any actual proof that the Venezuelan Army uses waterboarding?  Or are you just creating a strawman to attack?)

        •  The use of the... (0+ / 0-)

          ...word "waterboarding" is not in my posted comments...thankyou.

          I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

          by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 11:14:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "BOO! " (7+ / 0-)

            ....old woman in the "Princess Bride".

            •  This may help... (0+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              Hidden by:
              jabbausaf

              ...http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html

              I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

              by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 11:29:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Chicken Tetrazzini Deluxe (10+ / 0-)

                INGREDIENTS

                   * 1 (16 ounce) package linguine pasta
                   * 1/2 cup butter
                   * 3 cups sliced fresh mushrooms
                   * 1 cup minced onion
                   * 1 cup minced green bell pepper
                   * 2 (10.75 ounce) cans condensed cream of mushroom soup
                   * 2 cups chicken broth
                   * 2 (10.75 ounce) cans water
                   * 2 cups shredded sharp Cheddar cheese
                   * 1 (10 ounce) package frozen green peas
                   * 1/2 cup cooking sherry
                   * 1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
                   * 1 teaspoon salt
                   * 1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
                   * 4 cups chopped cooked chicken breast
                   * 1 cup grated Parmesan cheese
                   * paprika to taste

                DIRECTIONS

                  1. Bring a large pot of lightly salted water to a boil. Add pasta and cook for 8 to 10 minutes or until al dente; drain and set aside.
                  2. Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C).
                  3. Meanwhile, melt butter in a large saucepan over medium heat. Add mushrooms, onion and bell pepper and saute until tender. Stir in cream of mushroom soup, chicken broth and water and cook, stirring, until heated through. Stir in pasta, Cheddar cheese, peas, sherry, Worcestershire sauce, salt, pepper and chicken. Mix well and transfer mixture to a lightly greased 11x14 inch baking dish. Sprinkle with Parmesan cheese and paprika.
                  4. Bake in the preheated oven for 25 to 35 minutes, or until heated through.

                Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

                by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:55:07 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Are you... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...still in the USAF, John, or are you permanently back in civies now?

                  I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

                  by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 01:33:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Vermont Apple Pie (10+ / 0-)

                    INGREDIENTS

                       * 1 recipe pastry for a 9 inch double crust deep dish pie
                       * 3/4 cup white sugar
                       * 3/4 cup packed brown sugar
                       * 1/4 cup all-purpose flour
                       * 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
                       * 1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
                       * 1/4 teaspoon salt
                       * 8 Macintosh apples - peeled, cored, and thinly sliced
                       * 2/3 cup sliced almonds (optional)
                       * 1/2 teaspoon almond extract (optional)
                       * 3 tablespoons butter

                    DIRECTIONS

                      1. Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C).
                      2. In a large mixing bowl combine white sugar, brown sugar, flour, cinnamon, nutmeg, and salt. Add sliced almonds if desired. Mix thoroughly, then add apples. Toss until apples are well coated.
                      3. Turn apples into deep dish pie shell, sprinkle with almond extract if desired, and dot with butter or margarine. Cover with top crust, seal, and cut slits or decorative vents in pastry.
                      4. Place pie on baking sheet and bake in preheated oven for 55 minutes, or until filling bubbles and apples are tender. May need to cover edges of crust during last 20 minutes to prevent burning.

                    Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

                    by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 02:02:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Delicious... (0+ / 0-)

                      ...thanks for sharing. How do you ever find the time to do so much cooking?....amazing.

                      I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

                      by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 02:04:52 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  no, I do not respect your opinion (7+ / 0-)

        Period.

        I am disgusted by it's implications.

        "If you want to go quickly, go alone.
        If you want to go far, go together.
        We have to go far, quickly."

        by shpilk on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:12:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What makes you think he won't be punished? (5+ / 0-)

        He'll try to join a law firm, but Bushies will blackball him.  

        I think you are horribly naive to believe that the Bushies will let this guy off the hook.

        No, they will call up the managing partner of any firm Williams tries to join and tell the managing partner that the government will have NO dealings with any client of that firm.  

        The managing partner will have to go to the other partners and see what they want to do.

        My guess is that they will NOT take on Williams, no matter how fine a lawyer he is.

        I hope I'm wrong.

      •  Still not making any kind of sense. (5+ / 0-)

        I respect your opinion, as I'm sure you respect mine.
        I disagree with yours, as I'm sure you disagree with mine.

        Not really. Torture is on par with rape and murder. I do not respect an opinion that would support such practices and attack somebody who opposes them.

        You earlier:

        ..will now go into private practice and live happily ever after...except for a never-ending nagging feeling of having betrayed the trust of his fellow officers.

        You now:

        ...some of his fellow officers will disagree with his stand, as that is their personal perogative.

        Those two statements don't add up. Disagreement does not equal betraying the trust.

        ...if he did the same thing in a repressive regime, he would probably be punished.

        If you

        1. Spoke out against the government
        1. Held a religion that was not the state religion
        1. "Voted" against the sitting totalitarian dictator
        1. One of any number of other things

        in a repressive regime, you would probably be punished. This does not make his actions wrong or invalidate them in any way. Just because repressive regimes are bad does not mean we can be almost as bad so long as we are not as bad or worse.

        Let me try to put this in even simpler terms. You wash clothing that is dirty. Maybe one shirt you've just worn for a while but it isn't really filthy yet, and maybe another is covered in mud and cat hair. Just because the first shirt isn't as dirty as the second shirt does not mean they don't both need to be washed.

        Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

        by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:53:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Com'n John... (0+ / 0-)

          ...you're out of touch with reality. Take a chill and come back to the sandbox some other time.

          I've voted Democrat in every presidential, congressional, and state election since 1959...how 'bout you?

          by pere on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 01:38:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Bruschetta II (6+ / 0-)

            INGREDIENTS

               * 1 (8 ounce) loaf French baguette
               * 1 1/2 cups spinach - packed, rinsed and torn
               * 1/2 cup grated Parmesan cheese
               * 3 cups finely chopped almonds
               * 3 tablespoons chopped fresh basil
               * 1 clove garlic, minced
               * salt to taste
               * freshly ground black pepper
               * 3 tablespoons olive oil
               * 1 cup chopped tomatoes
               * 2 tablespoons thinly sliced green onion

            DIRECTIONS

              1. Preheat oven to 425 degrees F (220 degrees C). Arrange the bread slices on a non-stick cookie sheet.
              2. In an electric blender or food processor combine the spinach, Parmesan, almonds, basil, garlic, salt and pepper. Blend until a paste forms. Pulse in 2 tablespoons olive oil; continue pulsing until the mixture is the consistency of soft butter.
              3. In a small mixing bowl combine chopped tomatoes, green onion and 1 tablespoon olive oil; stir.
              4. Bake the bread slices for 5 minutes or until crisp and brown.
              5. Arrange toast on a serving platter. Spread each piece of toast with a thin layer of the blended pesto, then top with the tomato mixture.

            Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

            by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 02:03:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I do not understand the betrayed the trust part (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gary Norton

        could you explain?

        "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"

        by Barth on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 06:28:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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