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View Diary: Hillary has over 35 years of making change happen? You decide. (207 comments)

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  •  Um, actually, no. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rick, Elise, jpfdeuce

    I didn't claim Obama invented the sentiment.  I'm claiming that HRC lost it along the way, and now is in the position of the embittered oldtimer telling people to stop expecting much from their political system.

    Obama, in fact, sounds exactly like Bill Clinton did.  He's the heir to his themes and his political skills.  It's sure as fuck not HRC, who is looking backward with despair and cynicism.

    "They say I need to be seasoned; they say I need to be stewed. They say, `We need to boil all the hope out of him -- like us -- and then he'll be ready.'"

    by Inland on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 12:22:16 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Reality and hope... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dormaphaea

      can co-exist.

      But they need to balance each other out in various efforts to get things done.

      I don't see her as "looking backwards with despair and cynicism." I do see some realistic concern with regards to what the President-elect is going to face as soon as the swearing in is over. Indeed, each of the candidates made some sort of reference to that at the debate last night.

      It ain't gonna be pretty.

      Undecided Democratic Voter...okay?

      by kredwyn on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 12:28:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Apparently not, since the anti Obama hits (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Elise

        assume that because he has hope, it's all he has.

        I don't see her as "looking backwards with despair and cynicism."

        I do.  Her entire campaign has the vibe of "look out for what the republicans will do" and "look at how I've been part of the vicious partisan battles".  She's not even pretending to have a way out: she's not even pretending she's WON the battles.  She's simply satisfied with "still standing" and herself getting her own self elected.  

        Of course, the negative campaign, the triangulating, her caving on IWR and Kyl Lieberman, all set the frame of the person who's willing to do anything to get elected and that's the sort of deal with the devil you're willing to make.

        Me, I don't confuse being willing to do anything, like HRC, with actual ability to win, so I'm not tempted.  She's not competent.

        "They say I need to be seasoned; they say I need to be stewed. They say, `We need to boil all the hope out of him -- like us -- and then he'll be ready.'"

        by Inland on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 12:32:41 PM PST

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        •  you're welcome to your opinion... (0+ / 0-)

          and interpretation.

          But realise that not everyone "sees" the same as you.

          From what I've read of the Obama hits:

          assume that because he has hope, it's all he has.

          one of the questions they have is where is the rest.

          Me? I see some of it. I saw it in the participation re: housing in Chicago...the position as president of the Harvard Law Review. But if you go by other standards...the only experience relevant is that re: being elected to office. If so, then there are far more qualified candidates out there than the top tier 3.

          But given what I see as the mess that the POTUS will get in 2009, I want to see more. I want to know what the plans are. I want to know what the action is going to be behind the pathos.

          That's part of why I haven't really gotten behind any of the top tier candidates...and prolly won't.

          Undecided Democratic Voter...okay?

          by kredwyn on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 12:47:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  But she did caution against too much hope, and (0+ / 0-)

        people getting their hopes up, as if that was something bad. That was wrong to say, imo.

        Trickle Up is a Downer....

        by Gorette on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 01:36:22 PM PST

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        •  Hope is a great thing... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dormaphaea

          but having had my hopes dashed to the ground too many times by people I trusted, I learned that hope needs to be laced with realistic expectations that people will be who they are...and not who you want them to be.

          Nov. 2006 is one such example. Lots of people had hope that this new Congress would fix everything. But the reality is that a different creature altogether. Everything can't get fixed right away...and it's not going to be fixed in the exact way everyone expected...and there's been a lot of anger in response  to the situation.

          Undecided Democratic Voter...okay?

          by kredwyn on Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 01:45:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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