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View Diary: Michigan's Open Primary, and a Fraud (230 comments)

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  •  It might not be illegal (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilFR, plf515, HeatherLee, dan667, autumnal

    but it is sleazy.

    •  Sleazy? Sleazy?? (2+ / 0-)

      Smarminess, sleazy would you idiots get it right.
      It is Clusterfuckery. And at its best too.

    •  Bad for Democracy (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZappoDave, plf515, HeatherLee

      Yeah, it's sleazy. But worse than that, it's bad for democracy.

      I worry when any side of an argument (even the side I'm on) becomes so strident that it's willing to undermine and tarnish the democratic process, just to win an election. How short-sighted.

      •  I sometimes wonder about the sleaziness, too (0+ / 0-)

        Then i thought, repubs use sleazy tactics all the time to rig elections and no one seems to give a rat's ass (or at least a critical mass of "care" doesn't seem to coalesce). But you know as soon as dems start doing it a few times then the hammer will come down and the rules or laws will change. So maybe it's win-win, it'll be funny and it will enhance the chances of fixing some things which are obviously broken.

      •  Voting for someone you don't like is sleazy? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dougymi, plf515

        AND bad for democracy?

        Votes that simply don't count (Michigan Democratic Primary) are bad for democracy.

        Voting for the strongest of your choices is no longer an option, so why not vote for what you think is the weakest of their choices?

        Hey, I'm not going to do it, but I am not going to speakify against it. Sleazy? Getting 40,000 African Americans (or whatever the number was, 80k?) thrown off the voter rolls in Florida is sleazy and undermines the democratic process. Fn ILLEGAL too, but an unprosecuted Republican crime in Florida, no surprise.

        If Romney wins, and his colleagues complain about the strength and organization of Democrats in getting him elected, now THERE is a win. Short-term win, though. Imagine a McCain-Romney ticket. The Law of Unintended Consequences always applies.

      •  I just don't get this argument (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dougymi, plf515

        Can you explain precisely how this tarnishes democracy? I'd love to hear an argument that this is bad for democracy that rests on something other than it makes people feel skeezy.

        •  Anti-democratic (0+ / 0-)

          Of course it's anti-democratic, if only because it's cynical, calculating, and looks like something out of the Republican/DLC playbook... Treating an election like a game may work in the short run or even for a while; the Republicans I know have done it and succeeded. It's tempting: I've certainly considered it when Bush ran in 2000--what's a little cheating when so much is at stake, right? When the Republicans and various offended Democrats organized just such a effort against Cynthia McKinney in GA and voted for her inexperienced opponent in the primary and the election (she lasted one term, by the way), I got to see the tactic first-hand. I was all but heckled when I asked for a Democratic ballot in a strange precinct (mine was moved to an unfriendly area just for that election). And yes, it felt sleazy and clubbish in the room: I'll never forget it. Everyone seemed to be snickering, even the election workers.

          Soon after, they took down Max Cleland and put in the moronic Saxby Chambliss. Go figure. I'd rather win fair: I think it's this sort of strategic thinking that gets us in trouble. For it to work, you have to be as crooked as Rove. Are you willing to go that far?

          •  But see, that's the thing - (0+ / 0-)

            this ISN'T cheating. You're conflating being strategic, which this is, with being sleazy and illegal, which this isn't. I also don't think it's a game

            Through a series of decisions, MI dems were stripped of their say in the nomination process (and you can say what you want about our delegates being restored - if they are they'll be restored AFTER the nominee is locked and will have no impact), but because of MIs laws we still have a chance to play a role in the race.

            I voted for Romney this morning - and aside from the usual side effects of voting on a Republican ballot (mild horn growth, desire to rob poor people), I think it was the best way for me to use my voice. Not as a game, not as a joke or as a prank, butto add to the cacophony on the other side.

    •  asdf... (0+ / 0-)

      Possibly sleezy, but the repugs have been setting the rules that way for a long time now.

      We all rise to the the level of our incompetence. Unfortunately, some arseholes go too far.

      by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:18:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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