Skip to main content

View Diary: BREAKING: Mike Huckabee member of Bill Gothard cult (264 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I wish I shared your optimism (6+ / 0-)

    but I don't see much cause for it.

    I agree completely with what you say. If we enter a second Great Depression, fascist ideas will gain great currency. If those ideas are married with end-time Christianist fervor there is no telling how it will end. Save that it will involve nuclear weapons.

    by nominating yet another stealth fanatic, like Bush, but even worse, if that could be imagined

    Bush is not a religious fanatic, that's not where he springs from. He is old-school New England GOP. But thanks to Rove, he could pass himself off as one of the Christian right.

    Bush is the opposite of a stealth fanatic--a corporate tool who uses the religious right but keeps them at arm's length.

    What you fear is a true believer whom big business thinks they can use.

    Hitler was such a man--the corporations and the establishment conservatives thought he would be useful to restore order, and then they could dispose of him once the profitable status quo had been reestablished. It was their mistake--he proved to be a bigger man than they were. And the results were catastrophic.

    What you fear is an American Hitler, and though we are not there at the moment, we are one recession away from him.

    We must combat the Christian hard right by all means within the law. Groups like the Military Religious Freedom Foundation are our last, best hope to roll back the madness of the dominionist right, and drive them back into the obscurity from which they came.

    •  I've read enough about Bush (5+ / 0-)

      and some of the people he most trusts and respects, to fear that part of him does indeed believe in this millenialist armaggedon crap. Perhaps not sincerely, as he's clearly incapable of deep and sincere conviction about anything. But superficially, I suspect that he's bought into many of these ideas, and isn't just "using" these people to advance his political goals. Of course, the people who chose him to be the GOP's nominee in the late 90's are likely themselves not believers in all this (although perhaps some are, given the power that they have in today's GOP). But he himself is, I think, not entirely cynical in his embrace of Christianist evangelicalism, however shallow and uncommitted it might really be for a man incapable of any real conviction.

      But I agree that this could happen, and not necessarily only the way that Hitler came to power. Someday a real religious fanatic much like Huckabee, but with the political skills of a Bush or Rove, might come to power in the US, should things go seriously bad and stay that way for an extended period. In the past this might not have been likely, since fewer Americans bought into this crap. But it appears that up to 30% if not more of Americans are deep into the Kool Aid, with another 20-30% likely susceptible to it under the right circumstanes (at least 60% of Americans profess to not believingin evolution, which to me directly correlates to the number of people liable to fall under the sway of such movements and leaders--if you don't believe in evolution, you are by definition a believer in irrationality, which is what these movements fundamentally are).

      We are clearly headed into a pretty serious economic downturn. Most likely not a true depression, but possibly a deep and extended recession. Should Bush get his way and attack Iran, and things get seriously out of hand there and in Pakistan, which could trigger a war with India--both of which have nukes--and so on, combined with such a recession, and the general sense of this country being on the wrong track, and we might just have the conditions for such a thing to happen. I doubt it, but it could. More likely, though, we will emerge from the present series of crises and the Bush era relatively intact (such as it were), and it will be some future series of events and circumstances that could trigger such a Christianist takeover (which, being Jewish, I am convinced will have major anti-Semitic elements, as well as racist, homophobic, anti-intellectual, anti-liberal, anti-left and nativist ones).

      My dad, who travels the country by car on business, mostly through red state small town America, and who lived through the Holocaust, is convinced that this is coming. He's seen the raw elements that would combine to make it happen, and is sure that, under the right circumstances, it'll happen, and will be catastrophic. And in case anyone thinks us to be paranoid catastrophists, could anyone have imagined that someone like Bush could have taken over and instituted the radical changes that he has, in such a short amount of time? That might well be just a preview of what MIGHT be yet to come (but hopefully never will, and I believe can be prevented). And he's certainly done his share to lay the institutional, legal, constitutional, ideological, cultural, economic and phsychological groundwork to help make it possible Bush and people like him were a beachhead. There are others ready and waiting to follow and continue the assault.

      We must not let them.

      0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

      by kovie on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 12:10:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  education is our only defense (4+ / 0-)

        that, and the power of the Internet to allow us to organize and bring to light that which would otherwise have been buried in darkness.

        If we were truly committed to fighting these nihilistic religious movements, we would begin by ensuring that our children were taught about the importance of the scientific method and that religion, while it may inform one's politics, must never be used as the basis for the law. As Jesus himself said, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's."

        But the wingnuts have us beat there too, they've taken over school boards and pushed for the teaching of "intelligent design." Once you get people to believe that God created all species as they are, you can get them to believe anything. For once you believe that 2 + 2 = 5, you are obligated to believe more and more lies lest the original lie be exposed.

        Without education, we're doomed no matter what. And given the sorry state of our schools, we have a very long way to go before we can consider ourselves out of the woods.

        •  Well, if the Dover ruling is any indication (4+ / 0-)

          we're SLOWLY starting to win that battle. The judge in that case was a conservative Republican appointed by Bush II, yet he still saw through their BS and dismissed their case as rediculous. Of course, they didn't go away, they just skulked off to lick their wounds and reorganized, and they'll be back. Because they know that if they can't get their hands on our educational system, they're doomed.

          Of course, they have other ways around this, e.g. home schooling, charter schools, vouchers, after-school classes, church brainwashing, books, movies, concerts, retreats, camps, etc., and even in the public school system they're going to keep on trying to make inroads. But there are ways around their ways around the system. E.g. raising the quality of public education and requiring that all private schools and alternate forms of education adhere to public school standards (at a minimum), random inspections, common national curriculum, etc. All driving school graduates need to study the same topics and pass the same tests, so why not religious schools?

          This is going to take literally decades, but I think that it can be done, if for no other reason than that it HAS to be done. Or else, the term "American Taliban" will take on a whole different meaning. Anyone who doesn't think this possible is living in denial.

          0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

          by kovie on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 01:19:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site