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View Diary: Obama & Reagan, Take 2: It Gets Worse (190 comments)

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  •  Our healthcare system was ruined under Reagan (2+ / 0-)
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    opinionated, priceman

    It was the start of wrecking medicare fee for service and then the managed care, HMO thing followed right along.  It was the greediest of times.  It was the start of healthcare being all about making money with little regard to patient care or anything else.  It's been a downhill slide ever since.  

    Winning without Delay.

    by ljm on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:30:26 PM PST

    •  Reagan sucks. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      An acknowledgment that Repugs have ideas and have been winning on issues, as destructive as that has been, is not in any way, if coming from my computer, pen, mouth, etc. an endorsement of Reagan.  

      The Rethugs have been the party of (bad) ideas for many, many years and the Dems have been more complicit that leaders of their own agenda.  

      I cannot for the life of me understand why that is either hard for any progressive to accept or so very, very threatening to some people on this blog.  As a seasoned campaigner, I sure as hell want to know what my opponents' strengths and successful tactics are.  Wishing it were no so is a stupid way to win IMHO.

      This is no longer about a Clinton-Obama spat, its a failure of strategic thinking in many regards.  

      Sun Tzu said:

      "Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril."

      •  The Republicans have won on lies, not issues. (0+ / 0-)

        From voodoo economics, to blaming welfare queens for our problems, to appealing to white racists, to hooking up with the right-wing evangelical liars.

        You want to call these ideas - fine...

        I think the notion that you can increase defense spending (on preposterous crap like Star Wars), and cut taxes by 30%, while balancing the budget --- is garbage.

        Our problem is that the American people are so stupid, they think that whoever offers them a free lunch should be elected.

        That presents a problem for the grownup party - the Democrats. Do we pander, and try to out-lie the Republicans? Or do we try to show them that free stuff is NEVER free, and hope they mature...

        I'd rather lose than become Lee Atwater, or Karl Rove.

        •  We won't win (0+ / 0-)

          by thinking that 'the American people are stupid' I do know that.  The problem with your argument, such as it is, is that it conflates what I am saying with whatever you either imagine I am saying or with what you want me to say (but isn't what I am saying).  Then you argue that voodoo economics, the military-industrial complex, blaming poor people, and the whole range of terrible republican 'accomplishments' (carried out, often, with significant Democratic support if not sponsorship), is bad.  I agree 100% with your conclusion there, and I too don't seek to emulate Atwater or ROve and find it distasteful when Dems do so.  That's pretty much the DLC in a nutshell I think.

          •  That sad facts are...just that. (0+ / 0-)

            When Reagan irresponsibly lowered taxes resulting in 3 TRILLION dollars in debt, he became a hero.

            When Bill Clinton raised taxes in '93 (resulting in an even BETTER economy with no debt), it passed by 1 vote in each house, and the Democrats lost the House in the next election.

            The American people ARE stupid. The data is in. There is no doubt. Sorry...

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