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View Diary: NEVADA CAUCUS: If This Is True....Wow! **UPDATED** (329 comments)

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  •  see it as one more reason (12+ / 0-)

    the other side is scary and we really aren't scary.  Just because you already understand the stakes doesn't mean everyone does. Roe may have survived, but the minimum wage stayed low, some kids without insurance didn't survive, and our kids in Iraq haven't had an easy time of it. some who did survive came home without all their parts.  If Gore would have 'won,' I mean he did, just didn't get to keep it, we would not be in Iraq, and it's likely that 9/11 would have been stopped.  Think about it, not everyone is smart.  

    •  No, this is precisely what bothers me. (8+ / 0-)

      Everyone IS smart.  I'm a teacher -- I know this.  Just different kinds of smart.

      It's deciding, before the fact, that people are cattle to be threatened, rather than humans to be reasoned with, that offends my sense of human dignity.

      This is exactly the kind of arrogance I can't stand.

      "In my youth, it was said that what was too silly to be said may be sung. In modern economics it may be put into mathematics." -- Ronald Coase

      by julatten on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:47:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  here's why I don't agree (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Asak, Jesterfox, bamaky, gloryoski

        i have well educated neighbors who were voting for Nadar against Gore. I spoke with them and they said there was no difference between gore and bush regarding the environment. I told them they were wrong and additionally that bush would appoint supreme court justices who would vote against their interests, and that poor people would not get an increase in the minimum wage. Made no difference, of course, and they later found out I was right, but they didn't know and I at least told them. That's not a threat, it's a warning, a threat is if you don't vote for Gore I'll punish you, not if you don't vote for Gore down the road you'll likely be sorry. Gore also promised to keep ss in a lock-box so it couldn't continue to be raided and guess what. You were warned ,not threatened. The fact that you knew already ought not have caused you to change your ind about him, if you were for what he stood for anyway and weren't just wanted to be shown respect.  

        •  I've always had the opinion and still do (0+ / 0-)

          That unless you lived in Florida you vote for Nader didn't mean shit.

          I am sick of Naderites pretending their votes mattered and that had Gores message been different in 2000 he would have won their votes and that alone would have propelled him to victory.

          Bullshit.

          His message was flawed. But Nader or no Nader it came down to Florida. People in Vermont and Oregon and other states that supported Nader had absolutely zero effect on the 2000 election. In 2004 it came down to Ohio. I for one live in California. The state is consistently Democratic. That could change. But unless the polls show a very tight race in California the week before the election my vote doesn't matter one bit.

          This state is solid blue.

          He who lives in the present, has no knowledge of the past nor vision for the future.

          by DeanDemocrat on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:42:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think both you and julatten (0+ / 0-)

          make good points and that maybe you agree more than you know (and other touchy-feely cliches).

          The conversation with your neighbors, as you present it, is a reasoned warning and therefore useful and legitimate.

          Al Gore's rhetoric, as julatten presents it (and I think the presentation is accurate), is a hail-Mary, narrowly targeted threat by a politician and therefore manipulative and not worthy of respect.

          julatten also did not say for whom she voted, loss of respect or no.

          julatten, it sounds like your students are extremely lucky to have you.  

      •  Nope, sorry, but some people are stupid (5+ / 0-)

        they simply are.  It's not nice, and it's not fair, and it's not polite, but some people are stupid.  

        •  Damn straight. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plf515
        •  Some people are politically ignorant, maybe (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plf515

          even "stupid." They are still likely to be smart in other ways unless they are completely low-functioning.

          People who revel in making broad generalizations likely based on ignorance of neurology, psychology and pedagogy and who further expect bonus points for being edgy and "not nice" leave themselves open to being classified as sociopolitically and empathically "stupid."  

          •  I've got an MA in special ed (0+ / 0-)

            and a PhD in psychometrics.

            Some people are stupid.  I don't expect any bonus points or anything, and I'm not reveling in anything.  It's just a fact.

            At the extreme, there are profoundly retarded people (I've worked with some of them) who don't react at all to anything.  Or who might, after months of intensive work, learn to track something with their eyes.  

            You acknowledge this in your "unless they are completely low-functioning".  

            But very few, if any, human traits exist purely as classifications or categories.  Nearly everything is a continuum.  And, whatever you mean by 'intelligence' whether you regard it as one thing, three things, or 7 things, some people have more of it and some people have less.  If it's 7 things, then, just by chance, some people will be high on all 7 and some low on all 7.  

            You are right that there will be fewer people who are low on all 7 then who are low on just 1 or 2, but some people will be low on all 7.  Just how many will be low on all 7 depends on your definition of 'low' and on how correlated the 7 factors are.

            •  All true (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              plf515

              and this sounds a lot more intelligent than what you said before.

              And as far as what I said before....Well, this is mainly a political blog and so when you said "some people are stupid," you could fairly argue that "politically 'stupid'" is assumed.

              This wasn't really about you, but you're all schooled and stuff so I guess you knew that already.  

      •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JuliaAnn

        Great post.

        I'm sick and tired of being treated like an idiot.
        And being part of a culture where political discourse is all spin, lying, thuggery, intimidation, sex appeal blah blah

        I well remember a guy in my dorm in 1970 (boarding school) who became one of Al Gore's lead campaign consultants.  I'm not naming him here, but he was prominent.

        He was always a smug insider.  We're all demeaned by the people who treat this as "hardball," rather than a political discussion among adults.

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