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View Diary: Obama Better Get the VP Slot (157 comments)

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  •  1) All your bullshit aside, it might be a good (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pacific John, pHunbalanced, DaNorr

    ticket. However 2) Obama would not be a very good vice Presidential candidate (he would be worse then Edwards in fact) in that the position requires that Obama fights for the Presidential candidate. He won't do that. 3) Obama does not bring anything to the ticket other then "excitement". He doesn't bring a state or experience. It's not like Kennedy/Johnson. 4) Obama and Clinton obviously don't think much of each other and have completely different views about the Democratic party, the country and the job of a President.

    Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

    by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 04:58:22 PM PST

    •  It's not a good pairing. (2+ / 0-)
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      brooklynbadboy, DaNorr

      One other thing that needs to be mentioned is that there is a certain small segment of the independent centrist population that might be okay voting for a white woman or a black man at the top of the ticket as long as the VP is 'traditional' but may get the jitters about a ticket that has no white guys.

      •  You are right. The only reason for Clinton to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pacific John, pHunbalanced

        take on Obama as VP is to heal any kind of rift between the African Americans and the rest of the party.

        He doesn't add anything else to the ticket. And I wouldn't look forward to him being the automatic frontrunner in 2016.

        Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

        by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:10:41 PM PST

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        •  There we differ (0+ / 0-)

          I would love for him to be the automatic frontrunner in 2016. I just wanted him to get that by being Gore's VP.

          As for 2008, there is not going to be any huge rift between Clinton and the black voters. Clinton still has plenty of strong support in the black community and black voters tend to be a little savvier about politics than white voters at equivalent income levels. I think the GOP hit their modern highwater mark with black voters in 2004. I suppse there may be a bit of a turnout suppression issue with a Clinton nomination, but it won't be severe.

    •  He would bring this though: (1+ / 0-)
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      Descrates

      The black vote in important swing states.

      I know you probably don't think this is serious, but i can tell you from anecdotal evidence in these parts: if she ran in the general today, youd get black turnout down around 40-50%. Dead serious. There is a meme circulating in the hood that she is a "racist old white lady."

      Now, she could certainly still win with super low black turnout, but she's going to have to spend a lot of time in states she normally wouldn't have to worry about.

      Especially against McCain. Especially against McCain if he sees the opportunity and puts Powell on the ticket.

      But I doubt Obama would even accept if offered. Theres really nothing in it for him. If she wins, he's still a big shot in the party. If she loses, he's an even bigger shot. But if he goes for VP and wins, hes marginalized. If goes for VP and loses, hes marginalized.

      Theres nothing in it for him.

      "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

      by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:11:37 PM PST

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      •  No, I agree. Enough of a divide seems to have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        brooklynbadboy

        been created between black and whites that something should be done to heal it. I wish there was a different African American that Clinton could choose. If only Booker had a few more years.

        Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

        by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:14:12 PM PST

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        •  I dont know what could be done. (0+ / 0-)

          It's starting to set in.

          I'm not saying black folks will go and vote Republican, although I'm sure some will. Especially military if its McCain. The bad thing will be depressed turnout.

          Republicans are seriously going to capitalize on this, naturally. They are going to heap praise on Obama all summer long and make sure Black foilks hear it loud and clear. They will also go ape-shit on Clinton and turn Obama into a living martyr.

          I doubt black folks will buy it, but there will be this sort of "fuck all the white people" attitude that will depress the turnout.

          Clinton could have won this election without this happening, but they chose not to.

          "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

          by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:21:29 PM PST

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          •  Exactly what could Clinton have done differently (4+ / 0-)

            to mollify the black vote? I can't think of anything. This was almost inevitable. When the choice is either the first woman nominee or the first black nominee, a clusterfuck can't be far behind.

            How do you think women would feel if Obama wins the nomination based on his "all Hillary did is drink tea" line?

            Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

            by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:24:41 PM PST

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            •  Well, if it were me advising them- (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Civil Defense

              I'd focus very much on the data: you know, the increased black home ownership, the increased black jobs, increased black wealth.  The increase, increase, increase in the 1990s. Thats what I would push.

              Pocketbook stuff. Obama really has no argument against that, because its true. Nothing racial about it either.

              But this circulating emails, drug dealer, muslim stuff? No good. Trotting out Magic Johnson?

              And why is that bill is always doing the radio shows? Let hillary call. You know, let the candidate run.

              She could have won any state so far without antagonizing a single black vote. They got too nervous.

              Its not good for the general. Seriously.

              "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

              by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:37:33 PM PST

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            •  What Obama should have said about Hillary (0+ / 0-)

              if he practiced Clinton tactics, is to basically go out and say she is a bitter, pathological battle axe. Turn her into a empty shell of an old, unloved, discarded woman. A hateful, emasculating feminist out to turn the country over to Gloria Steinem and turn your daughters into raving lesbians.

              The problem is, thats not the kind of politics he advocates. Rightly so.

              "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

              by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:00:26 PM PST

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              •  He doesn't have to do it (0+ / 0-)

                because all his supporters already are.  Isn't that basically the caricature that Hillary has on here from all the Edwards and (especially) Obama people?

              •  So, one of Clinton's people brings up Obama's (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FleetAdmiralJ

                drug use. That's foul play. One of Obama's people says that Clinton doesn't care about black people. That's fine.

                By the way, there were Clinton Lesbian rumors flying about a couple months ago (one Obama supporting website was pushing them). Was Obama's camp innocent in this, but Clinton still guilty of race baiting?

                Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

                by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:04:26 PM PST

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          •  Of course, the best way to defend against that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DaNorr

            Is Obama going out and saying that it's republican BS and that they should support Clinton.

            If they support Obama so much, and if he actively campaigns for Clinton, wouldn't that be more persuasive than GOP BS?

            •  Whats in it for Obama? (0+ / 0-)

              Seriously? Place himself on the opposite side of the community for the Clintons? Please. That would be a disaster for him and would make him exactly the kind of politician hes running against.

              Its not republican BS. Its what everyone I talk to when I get my haircut seems to believe. genie out of the bottle.

              The best thing he could do, if i were advising him, would be to go to red states and do all he can to help Democrats get elected to Congress. As he did in 2006.

              He won't actively campaign for Clinton. I think thats out of the question. What he will do is publicly endorse her and then keep away from her.

              "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

              by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:41:46 PM PST

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              •  He will actively campaign for clinton (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                copithorne

                you can bank it, I think.

                "What's in it for him?"  I guess having a democratic candidate doesn't count?

                •  Look at it from his perspective. (0+ / 0-)

                  Youre Barack Obama. You've now got a list of friends all over the country and a huge base of support. You took on the Clintons and kept it close. You lost. What next?

                  Well, Clinton faces a tough election. Your home base community isn't feeling her anymore. Your neighbors are telling you all about the dirty tricks they used against you and the things they circulated about you.
                  You dont like them and your wife wants this to be over so she can go back to being a normal human being. She doesent like Bill.

                  She could win. In which case, you'd still be a Senator who could run for Governor with your reputation intact.
                  She could lose, in which case you'd be in prime position to run again should you so choose. If she lost, it wouldnt be Obama's fault. She'd get all the blame.

                  But going out and advocating Hillary Clinton would pretty much see to it that he has nothing ahead but a stiff Senate challenge from the left. Win or lose.

                  "So, until the day we expire and turn to vapors, me and my capers, will be somewhere stackin plenty papers." - AZ

                  by brooklynbadboy on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:54:27 PM PST

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                  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                    But going out and advocating Hillary Clinton would pretty much see to it that he has nothing ahead but a stiff Senate challenge from the left. Win or lose.

                    And then liberals wonder why the moderates in the party distrust them.

                    If the feelings within the party were that strongly anti-Hillary, then she wouldn't be in contention to win the nomination to begin with.  If she wins the nomination, clearly she's supported enough to prevent Obama from getting a primary challenger just by campaigning for her in the general.

                    I reject the notion that campaigning for Clinton will be bad for him at all.  And even if it were, It would lower my opinion of him if he took the selfish stance of "well...if she loses then I can run in 2012 when the nation is even MORE fucked after 4 more years with a GOP candidate" than by trying to help her win.

        •  Booker? (0+ / 0-)

          Whoa.  

          To his virtues be very kind, to his vices, very blind. moralquestionsblog.com

          by Descrates on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:27:37 PM PST

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          •  Booker actually does stuff instead of giving (0+ / 0-)

            speeches about how he plans to be a hands off leader. I can't see Obama driving around the streets at night, doing everything in his power to lower crime.

            Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

            by tigercourse on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 05:29:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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