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View Diary: SCHIP Veto Override Highlights GOP Vulnerabilities On Health Care (100 comments)

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  •  recc'd in part for the sig line (0+ / 0-)

    Really thats what I tell people who oppose single payer all the time. Health care is not a privilege its a human right. Also only in the US is single payer health care a progressive Idea everywhere else its common sense.

    Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

    by ryan81 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:43:05 AM PST

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    •  A Human Right (0+ / 0-)

      I know that at least Barack Obama has stated publicly that he believes health care is a human right.  I am not sure about the other candidates.

      But if this is the premise of our policy, then it is government's responsibility to make sure that people's right are met.  The responsibility of government is to make sure that there is comprehensive, affordable health care available to all American.

      And while none of the democratic candidate's plans are universal (they all leave out the 12 million undocumented and all three will leave out 10-15 million who won't sign up for one reason or the other), they will extend coverage to 95% of Americans.  

      The argument about the mandate is bogus.  Neither Clinton or Edwards have a way to either monitor coverage or enforce the mandate in their plans.

      And Obama does not believe in mandates (let's see if we need it, first;  evidence suggests they don't work anyway).  And Obama believes that the governments role is to enable people to get their rights met, not to punish them if they are not.

      Health care is a human right.

      by Helenann on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:48:10 AM PST

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      •  The mandate is bogus!!? (0+ / 0-)

        If health care is a human right (I believe it is), then......

        t is government's responsibility to make sure that people's right are met.

        not to shrug off

        10-15 million who won't sign up for one reason or the other

        Another example of Obama's truly dangerous middle of the road approach, as well as a needless parroting of republican talking points.

        Obama talks about liberal revenge plots hatched in the sixties like they are a bad thing.

        by Rabonista on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:14:55 AM PST

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        •  For goodness sake (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rabonista

          Mandates don't ever get 100% compliance.  They don't reach about 15-20% of the people they intend to reach.  When you try to force people to buy something they don't want, it does not work.

          And it can only work if you have a forceful monitoring and enforcement mechanism.  But good luck finding all the homeless and mentally ill and drug addicts and unemployed and people who are paid in cash.  Not to mention that none of the plans even cover the 12 million undocumented.

          I also said that the government should "not punish people when they rights are not met."  That is what a mandate will do.

          Clinton/Edwards will leave out an estimated 22 million and Obama 27 million. NONE of these plans are universal.

          A mandate is not the solution to this problem.  It will cost a fortune in administrative costs to enforce and without enforcement it is meaningless.

          Why would you want to spend health care dollars that could go to pay for health care on a bureaucracy that tries to force people to buy something they may not be able to afford and then punishes them because they are uninsured?

          This is the most wrong headed idea to ever cross my path.  And I don't care what Paul Krugman says, he is wrong.

          I would urge you to go to Robert Reich's blog and see what he had to say.  He was a member of Bill Clinton's Cabinet and he has concluded that Obama's plan actually will end up covering the most people.

          http://robertreich.blogspot.com/...

          Obama promises coverage to every single American who wants it.  That is about 95% of the population.  The pool that is created with 95% of the population will be so big that risk and cost can be spread to make care affordable for everyone who wants it.

          As a public policy scholar and professor, it is usually a good idea to design the policy for the the vast majority of the people, and then amend it for those whom is does not work. Surely we can come up with better policy options than to fine the uninsured for not having insurance.

          Health care is a human right.

          by Helenann on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:31:57 AM PST

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          •  Five million people. (0+ / 0-)

            Clinton/Edwards will leave out an estimated 22 million and Obama 27 million.

            That's FIVE MILLION people. I rest my case. You are the one who said "universal" not me. I'm glad we clarified this I felt your post was misleading.

            Obama talks about liberal revenge plots hatched in the sixties like they are a bad thing.

            by Rabonista on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:41:01 AM PST

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            •  Yes it may be (0+ / 0-)

              These estimates are seat of the pants.  Jonathan Gruber who did the estimate of 15 million wont release his methods for calculating this.  So I have just accepted it.

              And the 10 million estimate is based on experience with other insurance mandates, and  no one knows how it would play out.

              So the real figure is anybody's guess.

              I think the bottom line is what do we do about these 10-15 million people.  Try to hunt them down and force them to pay a monthly premium?  Or find out first who they are and see if we can't come up with something that might work better for them - like what San Francisco has done.  Give the medically indegent access to public health care services and don't even bother with insurance for a homeless and unemployed population.  There is little to no income to tax and no wages to garner,.  What are you going to do if they can't pay?  Put them in Jail??

              Obama wants to enable ALL Americans to have access to health care and all those who want it to have health insurance.  He will not turn our health insurance system into a police state that roots out and punishes the uninsured.

              I can't even believe we are having this debate.

              Health care is a human right.

              by Helenann on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:15:21 AM PST

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        •  You miss the point (0+ / 0-)

          They BOTH leave out millions and the mandate won't cover them.

          There are millions of people who will not be able to function under an insurance system.

          We won't be able to even find most of these people because they live in the shadows of society.

          If we can't find them, we can't force them to buy coverage,

          We are talking about the people who don't want it, not the people who do.

          I spent the last week in some of the most impoverished neighborhoods in Nevada and I did not meet a single person who did not want health insuraane for themselves or their family.

          Let's design a system that works for 95% of the poplulation and try to figure out how to HELP, not punish, the 5% that is left out.

          Health care is a human right.

          by Helenann on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:19:03 AM PST

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