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View Diary: UK Times: Brewster Jennings outed by 'treasonous' US govt official in 2001, not 2003 (191 comments)

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  •  a slight correction (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevej, G2geek, KenBee

    Turkey is a NATO member and an US ally through treaty (unlike Israel, despite Bush's declarations and common wisdom, which is not an ally because we have no treaty stating thus).

    Turkey has petitioned the EU for admittance and has not yet been admitted, outside the suspected racial and cultural prejudices, there are still concerns of human rights that Turkey must address (and again, these concerns are suspected to be cover for EU cultural prejudices)

    with that slight correction, your analysis is still viable.

    "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

    by Jeffersonian Democrat on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:37:13 AM PST

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    •  oopsie my reply got posted above your comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jeffersonian Democrat

      it was supposed to be posted below, right here.  

      Title is "oh, that's a big correction."  

      thanks...

      •  not that big of a deal (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lysias, G2geek

        in regards to you post above; your idea is general enough that EU/NATO is really arbitrary to your point.  However, if you were to write a diary it would give a false premises on which to build your argument or point.

        I also want to say, that treason and spying are not mitigable or excusable in any circumstance, whether for an ally or antagonist.  But this sort of spying happens all of the time; we spy on the Brits and they spy on us and that is an accepted fact in these circles.

        People wanted to pooh-pooh and lessen the crime of the Navy cryptologist Pollard because "Israel is an ally" (which they are not).  On the other side of the coin, people must realize that Turkey is an ally and a very stable government, not in the least like Pakistan for instance.  That does not by any means lessen the crime but the outrage should be on the crime of treason itself not for whom the crime was/is committed.  There is a danger of lumping them into the "Other" category because of the population's (but not the secular government's) Islamic beliefs.  I do not want to see that happen either.  I mean, if this scandal involved a different NATO ally like Norway rather than Turkey, there would not be so much the "oh my God" reactions but rather "let's blow this open and prosecute".  I do not believe that the reaction should be any different just because Turkey happens to have a Muslim populace, in which people may misunderstand and confuse Turkey with other much more dangerous nations.

        It makes one long for the old-type of spies like the Cambridge Five and the Rosenbergs, who did what they did out of ideals that they believed would benefit the human race.  Since then, and especially with these people, spies have sold out their countries merely for personal gain and profit and not for noble but misguided idealism.

        Secondly, as Lukery has pointed out, this has to do with organized crime and different mafias, not necessarily nation-states at this point.  But we also have to rethink our impression of the mob.  We have to let go of the old idea of The Godfather and Goodfellas and realize that in many parts of the world, the mob IS the government and the government IS the mob.  I saw this first-hand while studying in Moscow in 94-95.

        heh, just my two euros thrown into the pot.

        "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

        by Jeffersonian Democrat on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:22:00 AM PST

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    •  human rights not prejudice (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lifexpert

      Turkey has petitioned the EU for admittance and has not yet been admitted, outside the suspected racial and cultural prejudices, there are still concerns of human rights that Turkey must address (and again, these concerns are suspected to be cover for EU cultural prejudices)

      Human rights was the only real issue. Speaking as a European for many years while the whole Turkey/EU membership was rumbling on I can tell you that any Eurpoean government that worked on Turkey's behalf would have faced massive blowback from it's own citizenry.

      The European attitude to matters of pain and killing is fundamentally different to the majority US one.

      Trust me, cultural prejudice was not a major issue, human rights was.

      The end game is the presidency not the nomination

      by stevej on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:49:03 AM PST

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      •  Living here in Germany (0+ / 0-)

        for the last few years I have experienced those cultural prejudices and the discussion of whether Turkey is Europe or not.

        "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

        by Jeffersonian Democrat on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 10:47:28 AM PST

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