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View Diary: Before you join that witch hunt - do your frigging homework (260 comments)

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  •  While I am not going to argue (0+ / 0-)

    with their established history, I still fail to see how this makes them a more "correct" target for harassment than the Moonies, who are known to have done many of the same things.

    The ONLY difference is that the US government condones one cult but not the other.

    And the Valkyrie movie is clearly a primary reason why. Unlike the Unification Church, the Church of Scientology is not in lockstep with the Christian right-wing corporate Bush machine.

    It's essentially the same behavior our government engages in with third world puppet dictators. The right wing will rail against Castro and Chavez forever, while turning a simultaneous blind eye to the atrocities of Pakistan's Musharrif and Columbia's Uribe. And of course, everybody is quick to claim that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are/were dirtbags, and just as quick to forget when they used to be OUR dirtbags.

    Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

    by Randgrithr on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 08:18:55 AM PST

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    •  I'm not saying Moonies shouldn't be challenged (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kestrel9000, Quicklund

      I absolutely think they should be.  There's a distinction between religious freedom and exploitation, and those groups that violate that distinction deserve scorn and derision.

      As for the movie - Valkyrie is a nothing.  A movie about von Stauffenburg will probably do moderate business at best. Do you remember the 1990 "Plot to Kill Hitler"?  Didn't think so.  It covered the same material.

      And who is the movie supposed to hurt? Nazis? I think their image is pretty well shot to hell already.

      "Cultist" is an empty argument. It's the new Godwin. If you invoke it, you've already lost.

      by nightsweat on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 08:26:58 AM PST

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      •  Valkyrie has not been released yet (0+ / 0-)

        and yet you are willing to prejudge it's possible effects.

        Of course, there certainly seem to be some people out there who want to see to it that the film never sees the light of day.

        Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

        by Randgrithr on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 08:31:42 AM PST

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        •  So let me get this straight - (4+ / 0-)

          You think that the government is aiding a DDOS attack on Scientology to do what exactly to the release of Valkyrie?  Stop it?  How would attacks on Scientology stop UA from releasing the movie?  It's already shot, in post-production, and it's the priority one release from UA in 2008.

          Making Tom Cruise look like a fool might hurt the gross, but he's done a really good job of that himself over the last few years.

          And yeah, I'm prejudging the effects of Valkyrie because I'm a movie buff who's watched the effects of movies and their impact for over 40 years.  This ain't "JFK".

          Tom Cruise is only a minority holder in UA.  MGM owns the majority interest in the studio.  Valkyrie will be in theaters in October 2008, even if L. Ron Hubbard himself comes back to life and tells UA not to release it.

          I'm sorry, you're chasing a wild hare here.

          "Cultist" is an empty argument. It's the new Godwin. If you invoke it, you've already lost.

          by nightsweat on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 08:39:32 AM PST

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          •  Not sure that's possible, but I'll try (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not sure how attacking Scientology would interfere with getting the movie to the theaters, since I'm not sure how that process works - but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that hitting the organization in the pocket is designed to at least punish them for it, if not interfere with it's release.

            I'm not chasing a wild hare. I might be if I saw Anonymous being encouraged to also harass the Unification Church - or if I saw them being seriously prosecuted for illegal acts against the Church of Scientology.

            Neither of those two things are happening.

            Anyone who fails to see the historical parallels between Blackwater & the Nazi SS, or the DHS & the Gestapo, needs a serious reality check.

            by Randgrithr on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 08:44:49 AM PST

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            •  No sequitur (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ahianne

              Why would Anonymous need to attack everyone at once?  They/he/she picked a target and went after it.  In fact, going after the Moonies at the same time would diminish the effectiveness of the first DDOS attack by splitting the botnet.  No?

              As for punishment, try being the RIAA or MPAA's webmaster.

              "Cultist" is an empty argument. It's the new Godwin. If you invoke it, you've already lost.

              by nightsweat on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:54:01 PM PST

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        •  Why not? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, dadanation, Quicklund

          Valkyrie has not been released yet (0 / 0)

          and yet you are willing to prejudge it's possible effects.

          You are. So why shouldn't nightsweat?

          Oh, and would you mind not tossing around the words "scientific experiment" quite so much? I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.

    •  The Scientologists have acted in ways... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dadanation, Quicklund

      ...that will disrupt Anonymous's and other groups' ideas of "fun."  They have also been enemies of legitimate free speech as well, as the Co$ has a long history of suppressing speech critical of them on the Internet.  The Moonies and other authoritarian organizations do not have that same high-profile history of SLAPPs and other tactics against "suppressive persons" who are "fair game."  Therefore, I'm not surprised that they have become the target of a bunch of anarchists who want to test the absolute limits of free speech on the Tubes.

      In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the nominal leader of a group that has no use for Scientology.  We've (there is no we, just like there is no Cabal) have given them the following awards.

      Church of Scientology

      Busted Urinal Award
      George Armstrong Custer "Kicked @$$" Award
      72 Raisins "Crackpot Religion" Award

      Here are the award descriptions.

      Busted Urinal Award

      The reward for the Lamest of the Lame on Usenet. One who clogs and stinks up the joint like a busted urinal, you could say.

      George Armstrong Custer "Kicked @$$" Award

      Given to those brave, inspiring crusaders who will keep up a lost lunatic cause despite all odds, even after the enemy has won, set up their own superpower in their midst and are chugging Guinness in a Kook-free world scenario.

      72 Raisins "Crackpot Religion" Award

      Name says it all, functions the same way as VVF (meaning the religion need not even be meant to be real, so long as it's good crackpot theology).

      The group's opinion of Scientology is quite clear.

      On the other hand, Anonymous might get the following award, should their campaign make it to USENET.

      Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker

      The Hook Line & Sinker (HL&S) is a different breed of award, a reward for the best, most inspired trolls on Usenet. Talent at wily yet ultimately harmless manipulation is worthy of public recognition; it gets laws passed all the time. Named in memory of the Usenet troll who rose so far as to successfully troll the American media into reporting his theory that the Navy shot down TWA Flight 800.

      Note that the awards to Co$ are for kookery and bad behavior.   The one Anonymous might get is for merit.

      "Iraq: the bravest 1% fighting for the richest 1%." ~ An Unknown Kossack.

      by Neon Vincent on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:30:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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