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View Diary: I Refuse to Buy into the Obama Hype (673 comments)

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  •  She supported it, but she (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybrestrike

    was glad it wasn't passed.  Or something like that.

    No wait, I'm pretty sure I heard her say that she voted for it and was glad it ended up not passing.  I think you're wrong.

    •  She did not vote for it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chiniqua

      period. She was absent the day of the vote due to Bill's heart surgery. She explicitly said she would have voted against it had she been able to attend the vote.

      This is a massive distortion of her record that keeps getting repeated over and over and over again. It is just not true.

      You don't have to be a supporter of her's (I am not) to want the truth out there.

      "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

      by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:32:40 PM PST

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      •  Fine ... (0+ / 0-)

        Can you name another? Is the premise of this article faulty for this?  How does one vote account for a "massive distortion of her record"?

        the essence of contract is agreement not coercion or obedience

        by Fernando Poo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:42:26 PM PST

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        •  um. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chiniqua

          The bankruptcy bill got huge play in the progressive blogosphere if you recall. It was a very important vote with far reaching consequences for middle class America.

          Saying incorrectly that she voted for it is like saying Obama voted for the Military Commissions Act and not correcting the record.

          It is a massive distortion of her record to insinuate that she voted for perhaps one of the most damaging domestic pieces of legislation of this decade when she was clearly opposed to it and keep repeating it ad infinitum as if it was obvious she would support it.

          It's patently false; it keeps being repeated to the point where you clearly fell for it as have thousands of others, and it fails to be corrected. It need to be, period.

          "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

          by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:54:06 PM PST

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          •  Can you name another? (0+ / 0-)

            and how does this make the premise of the article faulty?

            If I have a family emergancy, I need to express it's importance over that of my employer..ie I must justify my not being there.  If it is REALLY important, as you claim this is, taking the hour to do my job, would be a condition of my justification, if possible.  If I Remember correctly it was possible.

            Clearly oppossed != willing to act.

            the essence of contract is agreement not coercion or obedience

            by Fernando Poo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:04:33 PM PST

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            •  listen (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              IseFire, chiniqua

              the author of the diary claims she doesn't like that Hillary voted for the bankruptcy bill.

              I am not arguing against the premise of the diary, I am arguing that there is a factual error in the diary--in fact a flasehood that has been constantly repeated in the blogs about her bankruptcy bill vote for years now that thousands of people have fallen for.

              It needs to be corrected, that's it.

              And look below for evidence.  

              "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

              by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:07:47 PM PST

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              •  then you are tossing fish.. (0+ / 0-)

                Herrings ... red if I say em right.

                the essence of contract is agreement not coercion or obedience

                by Fernando Poo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:09:37 PM PST

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                •  yes (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chiniqua

                  let me go ahead and write a diary that claims my disappointment in Obama's vote for the Military Commissions Act...but that despite that he's a swell guy and you know I really like his stance on the war and how it needs to end.

                  Give me a break. There is a factual error and it needs to be corrected. You obviously have wonderful respect for facts and truth. Right?

                  "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

                  by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:12:14 PM PST

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                  •  I just asked you to justify your nitpicking... (0+ / 0-)

                    No where did I mention facts.  That would be inappropriate in political discussion, as you have demonstrated.

                    the essence of contract is agreement not coercion or obedience

                    by Fernando Poo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:22:47 PM PST

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                    •  jesus christ. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      IseFire, Ran3dy

                      Here is my nitpicking for you: there is a factual error, a massive one  that has been repeated for years without a blip inside this diary. I care about the truth, and about facts. There is misinformation here and it should be corrected.

                      End of fucking story.

                      "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

                      by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:29:37 PM PST

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      •  That's right, that sounds familiar. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybrestrike

        But then what did she say in the debate, that she supported it but was glad it failed?

        Did she say she would have voted for it but couldn't be there because of Bill's surgery?   I seem to recall that, but could be totally wrong.

        And I 100% agree on wanting the truth out there.  I have no interest in gaining points by lying about someone else's record.  That's just wrong.

        •  I am not aware of this debate (0+ / 0-)

          answer you're bringing up, It would be helpful if someone found a link to the transcript.

          However saying she voted for it is still incorrect.

          "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

          by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:57:31 PM PST

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          •  In one of the debates she (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cybrestrike

            said she was for the bill, but couldn't vote for it because of Bill's surgery, which turned out to be a good thing because she was actually glad it didn't pass, or some such thing.  I can't remember which debate, but I think they were all still in it at that point.

        •  check out this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TocqueDeville

          http://jinchi.blogspot.com/...

          From the official press release on the vote back in 2005:

          This bankruptcy bill fundamentally fails to accord with the traditional purposes of bankruptcy, which recognize that we are all better off when hard-working people who have suffered financial catastrophe get a "fresh start" and a second chance to become productive and contributing members of society. With the passage of this legislation, which makes obtaining this fresh start more expensive and more difficult, we are ensuring that many responsible Americans will continue to be buried under mountains of debt, and unable to take back control and responsibility for their lives.

          plus:

          In the days before S.256 was finally brought to the floor Senator Clinton voted for every amendment which would have added consumer protections to the bankruptcy bill. Amendments which were repeatedly rejected by both the Republican majority and far too many Democrats. She even voted against cloture in an attempt to keep the final bill from coming to a vote at all.

          I think it's fair to say she was solidly against this bill.

          "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

          by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:03:37 PM PST

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      •  She did not vote for the one in 2005 (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IL dac, mamamedusa, cybrestrike

        She did vote for the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention Act of 2001 as did Edwards.

        Kennedy, Kerry, Dodd, Feingold, and Wellstone were among the 16 Senators who voted nay.

        In 2005, she was not present. Obama voted nay. Kennedy and Feingold, and a few others, fought like hell to tone down the bill by offering amendment after amendment after amendment. Apparently neither Obama nor Clinton were part of that fight, although they may have signed on as co-sponsors to various of Kennedy or Feingold's amendments.

        But hey, you care so much. Please go and find out and then write a diary about it with links and quotes.

        God is busy somewhere else and left Chad Vader in charge of earth.

        by Grassroots Mom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:17:02 PM PST

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        •  look avove (0+ / 0-)

          for the evidence. She voted for those amendments, and voted against cloture.

          You wanna write a diary with an untruth in it that keeps being repeated over and over again? Go ahead, but don't complain when others point it out.

          If you are talking about the bankruptcy bill of 2001 then call it that because it is clearly understood that when someone mentions the "bankruptcy bill" as a stand alone it is the 2005 one.

          And no it's not that I care so much about this particular issue, I care about the truth, and for someone writing a diary about their voting records in Congress, you claiming she voted for the bankruptcy bill (implied that it is the 2005 one) is just inaccurate. End of story.

          "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

          by michael1104 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:36:03 PM PST

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          •  Know what Michael (7+ / 0-)

            I was stating in the beginning my assumptions before I did the research. When I did the research, my opinion changed because I was more informed. It's a before and after. It's called learning.

            After I read your comment, I went back and did more research. It took about an hour and a half. And found out why there is the confusion about Hillary's record on the Bankruptcy issue. I am not going to change the diary, however because I am trying to show how just relying on what you read here and elsewhere on the internets is NOT always accurate or reliable. That's why I went to the LOC.

            And you can't just look up how someone voted on some bill. You need the year and the number. I didn't actually know there were two bankruptcy bills, but I knew I'd read she'd voted for one. And I found the one she voted for. And then I found the one that she didn't vote on. I wasn't implying anything. I was confused, as apparently are a lot of other people. Because there were two Bankruptcy bills with identical titles.

            God is busy somewhere else and left Chad Vader in charge of earth.

            by Grassroots Mom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 10:44:37 PM PST

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