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View Diary: Clinton tells the truth, but is anyone listening? (157 comments)

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  •  The difference is the penalties (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zbctj52, Archangel M

    which he doesn't discuss on that link. At all. Unless they updated it this week.

    Obama has a back end mandate, Hil has a front end mandate. We just don't know how expensive Obama's "penalties" are. Yet.

    "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

    by grannyhelen on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 01:33:07 PM PST

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    •  he did discuss that in a debate (0+ / 0-)

      and says that if someone who elected to not take the insurance gets sick and then can't afford the treatment, they are treated but some penalty applies (say, back premiums, etc.)

      If they do pay for the treatment themselves they are not penalized.

      When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

      by onanyes on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 01:35:44 PM PST

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      •  And who pays the penalty? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grannyhelen

        If a patient can't can't afford health insurance, he sure as hell won't be able to afford to pay a penalty.  This was discussed by Krugman before.

        •  the idea is that people (0+ / 0-)

          who can't afford insurance will probably want it and hence pay at a subsidized rate.

          their penalties would be similar to the rate they would have paid, right?

          Question: what do these people do with a mandated system?

          When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

          by onanyes on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:06:10 PM PST

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          •  With what? (0+ / 0-)

            I'm unemployed, and I have $0 in the bank.  I can't even pay my telephone bill next month, because I've used up the last of my money paying for this one.  How would I, being broke, pay for anything under Obama's plan?  You can't buy something without money.  That's my whole point.  And I don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid, because of how the rules have been rewritten.  So where does that leave me under Obama's plan?

      •  It is not in the policy (2+ / 0-)
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        zbctj52, Archangel M

        He discussed it Dec 30 MTP as well.

        Without going into the myriad of questions that he hasn't answered about these "penalties" (like how much they are, if there's interest charged, if a wage garnishment is involved, etc), what I love is the response that I generally get to this objection, which is to blow it off and treat it like it's not really that big of a deal.

        Which I guess would be easy to do until looking someone in the eye who didn't pay into the system, got sick (or pregnant - yes, this "unmandated" system actually treats women and men differently in this respect) and then had to pay all of these "penalties".

        But by not discussing any of this right now it can just all be treated like "no big deal". "Maybe a couple of premiums".

        And with no evidence to base any of that on. It is funny, in a sad sort of way.

        "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

        by grannyhelen on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 01:50:21 PM PST

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