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View Diary: Armando has lost it (227 comments)

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  •  He's much calmer there (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SallyCat, PaintyKat, vcmvo2

    from what I've seen.  Jaralyn doesn't tolerate flaming.

    We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

    by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:06:48 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Forget flaming (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      byteb, DaveV, lgcap

      it's disagreement that they don't tolerate.  I never flamed ANYONE there or was confrontational in any way.  Just disagreed with some of Armando's positions on 527's, which caused him to have a hissy fit and delete comments left and right.

      •  But then we can't verify your claims can we? n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SallyCat, PaintyKat, vcmvo2

        We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

        by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:18:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Donna Z, DaveV

          ALL the comments have been disabled over there for the time being.

          Look, I'm not a troll.  I don't start flame wars.  There's no point in it at all.  It's a waste of time for everyone involved.  But I get pissed when my comments are deleted b/c the owner of the blog is too pissy to brook any dissent with their opinions.  Which is exactly the case here.

          I have a hard time believing that the entire commentary of their site would be closed over just a simple case of trolling.

          •  Sounds . . . (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SallyCat, PaintyKat, vcmvo2

            They've deleted two whole threads of comments at this point, in large part b/c people there agreed with me that their blatant censorship was bullshit.

            Quite suggestive that trolling was exactly what was happening there.  But then we'll never know will we?

            We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

            by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:32:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The comments are closed on one (8+ / 0-)

            entry.  The piece challenges Obama's theme of unity and asks whether or not it is possible to achieve.  It was a well reasoned piece that would get him banned here if he wasn't already - the thing is that the questions Armando raises are valid.  Whatever hysteria that his article provoked probably has been deleted because I didn't see comments that were hysterical in the thread as it is now.

            It is funny because Armando declares his support for Obama in the thread making your pro-Hillary tirade seems a bit over the top - not to mention wrong.  Obama is never going to get 200% support out of everyone - it would be helpful if people who are that enamoured with him understand and accept other supporters for what they've got - rather than being so damned demanding.  That would in the end do a lot to help build the coalition that Obama seeks to build.

            •  Yep (6+ / 0-)

              and it's standard, it seems, for comments to be closed over there when a thread reaches a certain size.

            •  I read the piece and the comments. (4+ / 0-)

              And....I enjoyed it!

              As for any deleted comments - I don't know.  But what I saw was spirited and mostly quite civil.  Kind of like what I remember at Daily Kos, once upon a time....

              Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

              by Fabian on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:38:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

                •  God, I'd forgotten what it was like! (3+ / 0-)

                  "Daily Obama"?  Maybe not a joke, after all.

                  Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

                  by Fabian on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:42:45 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I think my time here is coming close (5+ / 0-)

                    to winding down.

                    I signed up for a Democratic blog not a candidate blog.  I want "The Democrat" to win in November which is more and more obviously out of sync with the current majority's desire for a particular candidate to win in August.

                    •  This too shall pass. n/t (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      inclusiveheart, vcmvo2, Fabian

                      We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                      by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:15:36 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  We'll see. (3+ / 0-)

                        The community has changed and therefore the community standards are changing with the new influences.  Thems the breaks.  I am not angry or resentful - just feeling less and less at home here.

                        There are millions of places to go on the internets - and in the real world - though so I will be just fine.  

                        •  Yes. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          PaintyKat, inclusiveheart

                          The community standards are changing.  But probably less so than the candidate wars would seem to indicate.  

                          We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                          by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:36:27 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  How many of the (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          PaintyKat, inclusiveheart

                          new people around here do you thinnk will be here in a year.  I'd venture to say not many.

                          We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                          by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:38:48 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Maybe not, but that doesn't (4+ / 0-)

                            really guarantee anything by way of re-establishing some of the key standards that drew my participation here in the first place.  

                            By the time next year rolls around, this place may have suffered the worst possible fate which would be that it would have low traffic and be full of hyperbolee and inuendo too.

                            The breathless hand-wringing about Super Delegates is low information meets Godzilla politics - the failure to understand what a brokered convention is and why that mechanism still exists {the simple answer is that we can't just call it a tie and go on to the general btw} - the lack of context or information being applied to snap judgments - it is all getting kind of ridiculous and old.

                            I have to wonder what kind of scortched earth this crowd will leave behind and whether or not it is worth riding it out or even coming back if I do choose to take a break.  I don't know.  I used to learn a lot pretty much everyday on this blog - now I feel like I can go a week or more without learning which isn't to say that I know so much that there is nothing left to learn - it is more that more and more I feel like I am dealing with a greater percentage of people who don't share my values about learning, well-sourced information and reasoned debate.  Again - that is cool - every playground changes and I am used to moving...  :)

                            Cheers - Happy Friday.

                          •  Always a pleasure. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PaintyKat, inclusiveheart, Fabian

                            Have a good weekend.

                            We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                            by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:57:25 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Not freaking soon enough. (3+ / 0-)

                        When the same group who attacked Hillary's campaign for the Inevitability and Coronation memes are now gladly embracing the same memes for Obama and they don't see the irony.

                        I have my elections on March 4 and I see multiple diaries calling for Hillary to drop out.  Yet a week ago there was criticism for "states that don't matter" from the Hillary campaign.  I'm unhappy that we only have two candidates to vote for and now people think that I should only have ONE candidate to vote for?  Whose state and whose votes "don't matter" now?

                        Of course the two Cindy McCain diaries were what did it for me.  Or I should be more accurate and say the comments were.   Maybe Cindy and Michelle are "proud" but I sure as hell wasn't.  On the "old" Daily Kos dozens of those comments would have been shot down by TUs and now they were uprated.  

                        Is there anything left here for me besides Saturday mornings, ecodiaries and bonddad?  I just don't know.

                        Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

                        by Fabian on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:35:30 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          PaintyKat, inclusiveheart, vcmvo2, Fabian

                          On the "old" Daily Kos dozens of those comments would have been shot down by TUs and now they were uprated

                          is the crux of the problem.  Limitations on troll ratings and the fact that many responsbile TUS have given up on moderation.  Ironically, just what Armando predicted in the aftermath of the troll wars.

                          We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                          by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:38:06 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Kind of. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PaintyKat, inclusiveheart

                            The problem really is that the hyperpartisans have a very biased(surprise, surprise) view of what constitutes hide-worthy comments.

                            When I went into the Cindy diaries and saw commenters who I supposed were serious feminists actually posting comments about "Stepford wives" and much, much worse - my jaw dropped.  There nasty comments about totally superficial things.  And not just a few, those diaries had over a thousand comments between them.  There was no use trying to pick out just five to Hide rate, especially when the first one I wanted to Hide had more than 20 recs on it already.  Maybe twenty of us registered some kind of official disapproval with the diaries but everyone else was having a red meat, veins between the teeth feast.

                            There's no moderating that kind of mob and the admins seem to think that it is acceptable as well.  

                            I did think I could ignore most of the candidate madness, but I'm not sure anymore.

                            Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

                            by Fabian on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 02:00:18 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I hear you and they troll rate in packs too (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            inclusiveheart, Fabian

                            I have tried to ignore the candidate diaries but they stretch into every nook and cranny of dkos.  I can handle the nastiness better than the misinformation and outright planted BS that I find the most unfortunate.

                            Sadly, there is no way to get any voice to correct misinformation.  I guess it is better if dkos is a run away train if it has a bias for one candidate.  And I have been really embarassed by some of the stuff posted from the top.  It reminds me of some of the early mis-steps of the early days of dkos.

                            And what is it with so many individuals thinking others want to know who they are supporting.  I guess I am too damned old and came from a family that revered the privacy of the poll.  My parentage was mixed, my father was a Democrat and my mother was a Republican.  So, privacy of the poll was what protected Mother from her inlaws who would ask who she voted for.

                            Do they really think that gains more supporters for their candidate or is it that they think everyone wants to know who they support?

                            It has been really disappointing but the conclusion that I came to yesterday was that the same kind of youth will be going to DC and that scares the hell out of me.  I fear it is going to be a flip side of the arrogant youth that went to DC with Bush and cut every corner and broke any social contract they should have had with the American people.  

                            It sure is disappointing to know what dkos was and the hopes I had for the Netroots and these thugs came along and now I fear we have become little more than a characature of ourselves.  We have become a joke and I fear the destruction of the Democratic party will be the result, just like Bush's arrogant youth were a large part of the destruction of the
                            Republican party.  They, too, knew it all.

                            So my concern is larger than trainwreck here, it is what I fear the ultimate outcome will be if hey get what they want.

                            PaintyKat

                            WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

                            by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 04:15:23 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's a thought... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PaintyKat, inclusiveheart

                            Remember how Colin Powell got crucified?  Imagine what could happen if Obama turns out to be just another politician and there is no amazing transformation of beltway culture.   Will people forgive him or will he be put alongside Colin Powell?

                            Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

                            by Fabian on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 04:35:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Armando's entry is germain to your question. (3+ / 0-)

                            My big question is what happens when Obama has to pull out the knives?  He will be forced to at some point and the question is will his 200 per centers turn on him for "betraying" them?  Or will they think it is cool?  It is hard to tell.  The harder they come, the harder they fall almost always applies so I feel these are fair questions.

                          •  Much there depends on the issues involved . . . (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            inclusiveheart

                            I think a lot of people have projected their beliefs on to him and he's bound to disappoint many of them.

                            We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

                            by Same As It Ever Was on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:00:57 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  I sure haven't forgotten and it is so refreshing (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    inclusiveheart, Fabian

                    to go over there and be reminded how civil and brisk discussions used to be at dkos before the invasion.

                    It is like a cool drink of water in the middle of the desert.

                    I was reading the discussions concerning the SuperDelegates over there and got actual facts and information.  What a rush.  There wasn't any name calling involved and various sides of the issues were represented with respect and the comments were even responsive.

                    Amazing.

                    PaintyKat

                    WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

                    by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 03:53:43 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  See my link below because the comments (0+ / 0-)

            have not been disabled at all.

            I just pulled up Armando's post for today and there is a discussion section just like every other day this week that I have read it.

            I don't know what site you have been looking at but it is not TalkLeft and Armando's section.

             Comments are not disabled at TalkLeft BTD

            PaintyKat

            WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

            by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 03:47:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Hasn't been my experience (6+ / 0-)

        but maybe I get special priveleges.

        The Primary Wars are over. To those who said "Wake me after the Primary Wars are over," wake the fuck up.

        by ben masel on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:19:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  In the last couple of weeks, yes. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Donna Z, Catte Nappe, Tonedevil, blueness
      Before that he was quite furious at Dkos and Obama 'cultists'. The goddess help you if you admitted to being both a Dkos poster and an Obama supporter and tried to defend either of both. He would go off on a tirade. I speak from experience. I decided it was better to avoid the potential explosion.
      I think Jeralyn who is very even in her responses had a talk with him but it's rough going if you challenge Hillary or BTD over there.

      You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata

      by byteb on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:14:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm. I am both an Obama (5+ / 0-)

        supporter and someone Armando knows as a poster from dKos and yet he's not flamed me. He's not one to shy from a real debate.  

        Now if you're just trolling or being unreasonable, he'll blast you.

        We are the ones we've been waiting for. - Barack Obama

        by Same As It Ever Was on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:20:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree. I wasn't timed out or banished (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cycloptichorn, blueness

          or deleted and I was always respectful in my comments. If any of my comments are still there take a look. I was hardly trolling. I disagreed with him about certain assumptions he made and he lost it. I decided that although I like spirited debate, I don't need unreasonable temper tantrums from someone who is an adult.

          You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata

          by byteb on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:28:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  He has never flamed me either (0+ / 0-)

          and he and I have had disagreements here at dkos.

          I think he respects folks who are straight forward and he abhors games, but if one wants to engage in game playing he will play to to end.  He will end.

          It is his playing field, it is his bat and ball.

          Why would anyone think Sherlyn talked to him?  What kind of proof do you have for such a statement.  If it is just you think so, it isn't much better than gossip and guessing what another person is thinking or saying in your absence is pure mindreading.  

          It was my understanding BTD has the right to run his own section the way he sees fit as long as he doesn't use profanity or violate rules for TalkLeft.

          I know MSOC got her comments removed because of her colorful language and Sherilyn told her how the cow ate the cabbage.

          PaintyKat

          WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

          by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 04:22:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  And she doesn't allow profanity either n/t (0+ / 0-)

      WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

      by PaintyKat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 03:45:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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