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View Diary: Shame on You, Barack Obama (256 comments)

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  •  Obama and Hillary (5+ / 0-)

    Obama sends out mailers that are factually acurate.  Mandates are not necessary and will force people to buy something they may not afford.  Hillary supported NAFTA and is now trying to back away from that.  These are FACTS.

    HIllary sends out mailers that are LIES.  She sends out mailers saying Obama is not pro-choice.  LIE.  She sends out mailers saying he did not want to close Yuka Mountain in NV - LIE.  She sends out mailers claiming that Obama does not want universal coverage and will leave people out.  LIE.

    Whose tactics should be questioned here.  It is perfectly legitimate to alert voters to another's policies.  It is not legitimate to alert voters to lies about an opponent.

    Obama does not have hissy fits when she sends out her lies.  Who is she to have a hissy fit when he challenges her on her policies.

    It is ridiculous and I hope all will see through it.

    Health care is a human right.

    by Helenann on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:46:41 PM PST

    •  he has said his plan may need mandates (1+ / 1-)
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      and it already has one. he said it may not work without mandates . .

      •  He has mandates (2+ / 0-)
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        Bensch, followyourbliss

        for children.  This is called paternalism.  Adults need to make decisions for children, because they do not have a choice.

        But paternalism applied to adults is a much trickier policy to promote in the US. It probably won't fly in the Congress and frankly it is a bit draconian and perhaps not even necessary.

        Obama's plan is projects to cover between 95-98% of Americans.  Without a mandate, his plan will actually cover MORE than hers - see Robert Reich's challenge to Paul Krugman on Reich's blog.  

        The reason is 1) his plan will be more affordable for more people.  and 2) he will allow adult children to stay on their parent's policy if their parents have coverage.

        The question then is how to get the remainder.  About 67% of the uninsured actually do receive some health care (doctor visit or emergency room) each year.  Probably the most promising route is to have automatic enrollment when people come in for care.  It will not be a hard sell to sign them up for insurance when they see what their medical care bill is!  Over the first two years of implementation you can cover about 90% of the remaining 2-4% of uninsured.

        This is a much better approach than threatening the most vulnerable people in our society with penalties for being uninsured.

        Obama is right on this one, despite what some economists argue.  People want health insurance and if affordable, most will buy it.  And for those who don't, they will want it when they need health care.

        Health care is a human right.

        by Helenann on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:41:00 PM PST

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        •  who needs SS? or cops or firemen or schools (0+ / 0-)

          etc, anyway--all "paternalism"--and all for the common good---like healthcare.

          You can't opt out of SS or taxes. You can't opt out of local property taxes even if you have no kids in school. There are excellent reasons for that--we all benefit from educating our kids. We all benefit from a healthy population too.

          And then, he farted candy and rainbows...

          by amberglow on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:56:24 PM PST

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          •  Regretably (0+ / 0-)

            You do not know what you are talking about.  Paternalism is when you take away the individuals liberty and autonomy to make decisions for themselves.

            Police and fire are public goods.  You pay for them through taxes.

            The equivalent for these services under mandates would be that everyone would have to buy their own fire and police protection in the marketplace.

            That is just foolish.  So is a mandate.  

            The equivalent of fire and police in health care is a single payer system that is paid for through taxes.  Unfortunately that option does not seem to be on the table.

            Health care is a human right.

            by Helenann on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 08:37:25 PM PST

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            •  Taxes are mandatory--a mandate (0+ / 0-)

              Health care is a public good too--and you can't even try to get to single-payer until you mandate it with subsidies and an expansion of Medicare.

              And then, he farted candy and rainbows...

              by amberglow on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 12:31:53 PM PST

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      •  Same tired line (1+ / 0-)
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        that several people have explained to you is false. Quit using it.

        by Bensch on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:13:35 PM PST

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