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View Diary: How Obama Rode The Race Card to Victory (271 comments)

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  •  "You can't dispute anything in the piece..." (17+ / 0-)

    What utter horseshit.

    The guy is a longtime Clinton shill.

    Yeah, mark, the millions of folks who voted for Obama only did it because he and his team played the race card.

    That's it.

    It had nothing to do with him inspiring people, or the fact that he was against the war, or his positions on key issues or simply the fact that more Democrats thought he was the right candidate to put up in the general.

    Okay.

    •  True that WIlentz is a long time friend of Bill (0+ / 0-)

      Just like Lawrence Lessig is a long time friend of Obama's. Both have their views, both are valid. Neither are on my favorites list but this by Wilentz is a classic and one I liked very much.  

      So, a good shill is one who supports Obama and a bad shill is one who supports Hillary. It that all there is to it?

      Oh, and if Obama did not get 90% of the black vote indeed he may not be ahead in this nearly tied race.

      Popular Vote (w/FL) 10,881,617 10,250,808


      The Democratic Party, as far as I can recall, has never before had our diversity split up like in this election where one demog group is voting as a block. And it will deserve discusion at the right time because it is not a simple black & white issue.

      Okay.

      HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

      by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:31:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, let me get this straight... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pgm 01

        If African-Americans weren't allowed to vote, Obama would have lost.

        Is that your argument?

        •  No I didn't say that. (0+ / 0-)

          I said that he's getting 90%, maybe 85% to 90% I have read, and that seems to me to be a decisive and demonstrative voting block. I haven't seen the topic thoroughly covered yet.

          HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

          by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:43:25 AM PST

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          •  You wrote: (0+ / 0-)

            The Democratic Party, as far as I can recall, has never before had our diversity split up like in this election where one demog (sic) group is voting as a block.

            What did you mean by that?

            •  The Democratic Party has always been the home (0+ / 0-)

              of minority groups: immigrants, Jews, used to be Catholics, blacks, GLBT, feminists, etc. These "groups" are not in reality amorphous blocks of votes but they have always trended with Democrats in elections against Republicans. We are a consolidation of our members who, unlike the Republicans, span many demographic groups and so it's been pretty fair in the past to say that, for instance, GLBT voters will vote Dem, or black voters will probably vote Dem.

              What I said was that I can't recall a time when within our party, in the primaries, after all of the votes were counted, a "group" voted at such a high percentage for one Dem over another. I don't know the data.

              I'm not suggesting anything, just observing the numbers being reported, and not until it's all over will we get to see the real numbers and be able to digest it all.  

              What's the problem?

              HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

              by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:01:28 PM PST

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              •  I don't see a problem at all. (0+ / 0-)

                I think the numbers are irrelevant. Guess what? African-Americans are voting for a Democrat. You seem to think there is something significant about African-American voters voting for a Democratic candidate who happens to be of the same race.

                Are you also as concerned with why elderly Democrats seemed to have vote in much higher proportions for Clinton?

                •  If Hillary was getting 90% of the female vote (0+ / 0-)

                  or only 10% of the male vote I would make the same observations. Yes, I would definitely say it's significant when any of our demographic groups votes along their own identity.  

                  Are you also as concerned

                  I didn't say I am concerned about it. I would say that I find it significant and interesting.

                  By the way, at the State of the Black Union last weekend on CSPAN, this piece of demographic voting trivia got plenty of coverage. The entire day was excellent and there was no fear or discomfort there in discussing race a a factor in this election.

                  HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

                  by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:19 PM PST

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      •  Wow. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pgm 01

        I am wondering if you may end wishing you could delete your post...

      •  Well, ya know (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Elvis meets Nixon, pgm 01

        Black people ARE allowed to vote these days.

        Democrats getting upset that they do seems a bit odd, to say the least.

        Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

        by drbloodaxe on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:46:33 AM PST

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        •  Please don't put words in my mouth (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not upset at all. I don't think it's a bad thing and did not put any value judgment on it. If anything, it's exciting to me. But it is a reality that can't and shouldn't be dismissed.

          HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

          by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:49:27 AM PST

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          •  Fair enough. (0+ / 0-)

            I'll letcha keep your own words.  But just letting you know that's how it came across, since the 'tubes' strip off the body language that says hey, I find this exciting!

            Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

            by drbloodaxe on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:53:32 AM PST

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            •  It's really a shame we can't have more mature (0+ / 0-)

              conversations. On a progressive blog, if you hear something that may need clarification, is it really a logical presumption to address the poster as being a racist? Can't we give each other the benefit of the doubt and ask for clarification before framing a poster in such an ugly way

              Well, ya know (2+ / 0-)

              Black people ARE allowed to vote these days.

              Democrats getting upset that they do seems a bit odd, to say the least.

              What's the point of being so ugly and negative? It stifles discussion so much, it hurts all of us. And sets an ugly unwelcoming tone. And I really don't mean to pick on you, it's all over the place...  

              HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

              by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:15:52 PM PST

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              •  The context (0+ / 0-)

                of the comment was the thread list of a diary claiming Obama's campaign engaged in race-baiting and is getting to the point of winning the nomination by using racial tactics, and then you posted a comment about how he wouldn't be winning if it weren't for black people voting in large numbers for him.

                In another forum, on another topic, the logical inference might be to give the benefit of the doubt.  In this place, at this time, I was less willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

                My comments were mature and civil.  Had I wanted to be otherwise, I could have gone blasting out and cursing and screaming 'racist, racist'.  Instead, I used a minimalist approach I hoped would get you to re-examine your own comment and see how it could perhaps be misconstrued.

                Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

                by drbloodaxe on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:10:08 PM PST

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        •  "Black people ARE allowed to vote these days." (0+ / 0-)

          No we're not.  We should all vote for kck and Markus candidate, Hillary.

          KCK, that might be the most ludicrous point I've ever seen.

          So when white people vote its okay, but when black people vote it's not okay regardless of how each vote.  

          Why can't u face the music, you have a good candidate, but Obama is better.  You're candidate is losing.  Using your same logic, Bill Clinton had the majority og black support for years, were you complaining then?

          Save the closet racist remarks for yourself.

          •  Whoa, I didn't say anything like that. (0+ / 0-)

            What are you talking about? I made no value judgments. Of course whatever is, is okay. I'm didn't even remotely suggest that anything is not okay. I'm not being critical. Like I said above, I will enthusiastically vote for Obama.  

            HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

            by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Btw, you misread, or I need to clarify (0+ / 0-)

            Using your same logic, Bill Clinton had the majority og black support for years, were you complaining then?

            Of course, blacks have always trended Democratic. My comment was NOT about GEs  against Republicans, but within the party, in primaries. Are you aware of blacks, or any other demographic group voting in the primaries with such an amorphous outcome? I'm not.

            HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

            by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:35:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your logic is flawed (0+ / 0-)

              Are you aware of blacks, or any other demographic group voting in the primaries with such an amorphous outcome? I'm not.

              Nobody says anything. Hillary had the entire woman vote and the latino vote (3 to 1, 4 to 1) locked up at first,  I didn't see you complaining then.

              In the end people are people.  They're going to vote how they want to vote.  To infer otherwise, or to infer that people are voting based on race doesn't make you look good.

              Using your logic, Jesse Jackson shoud have won way more primaries then he did.  

              Could it just be your candidate is not all that cracked up to be when you compare side by side to Obama?

              •  I have no idea how the real final data (0+ / 0-)

                will look or how it gets analysed. I'm not suggesting any conclusions. I recognize the historic qualities of this election.

                I didn't see you complaining then.

                I'm NOT complaining now. I'm not implying anything. You're inferring negativity  I did not say and do not mean. Can't you accept my clarification?

                Using your logic, Jesse Jackson shoud have won way more primaries then he did.

                 I offered no analysis, no logic. This makes no sense.

                Could it just be your candidate is not all that cracked up to be when you compare side by side to Obama?

                Not exactly because whites are pretty evenly split across the two candidates and not trending to Obama by 90%. So no, there is a "black vote" in this election that is decisive. If 90% of the females voted for Hillary then I would make the same observation. I'm not touching the why's, just observing the fact of the demographic trend. We will, after the election, need to understand the depth and breadth of this topic though.

                What if 90% of the females voted for Hillary and she won with only 10% support from the men in the party. I would say we, as a party, need to digest that and understand how it influences us in the future. No?

                HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

                by kck on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:01:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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