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View Diary: Obama's Thugs Suppress Discussion on Daily Kos (351 comments)

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  •  Its incredibly sexist. (8+ / 0-)

    "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

    by hopefulcanadian on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 11:25:28 AM PST

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    •  I Know (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      irate

      and yet my wife and I are both committed feminists.  Go figure.  I guess I'm unable to let go of what has always seemed to me to be the highly descriptive power of calling a guy a "pussy."

      •  I don't know (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emal, ExStr8

        many 'committed feminists' who would reinforce the association between being 'whiny' and being a 'pussy'.  Guess you guys are an anomaly, or maybe saying you're feminists, doesn't just make it so.

        The word is derogatory.  There are plenty of other words that also have 'descriptive power', that are absolutely, vehemently racist/sexist.  Their 'descriptive power' doesn't make them legitimate to use either.  Sorry, but that excuse is weak.

        "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

        by hopefulcanadian on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 11:59:38 AM PST

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        •  Well (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          irate

          perhaps my wife and I are inconsistent.  We have a somewhat rough-and-ready sense of humor.  For example, she's training to be a priest, and she has a button that asks WTFWJD?.

          You're correct, of course, in your suggestion that many terms used to refer to women or female anatomy have accrued derogatory status: queen, princess, madam, etc.  Cloaca hasn't to my knowledge attained common misogynistic usage, but then, it's Latin for sewer, so where else does it have to go but up?  And there does exist a double standard by which I sometimes abide: It may be fine to call someone a dick or an ass, yet calling them a pussy smacks of misogyny.  I would never call a wimpy guy a fag.  And for what it's worth, I'm the first in line to troll-rate anyone who uses sexist terms to refer to Senator Clinton, and I have written lengthy emails to MSNBC excoriating Chris Matthews on his sexism.

          I do know from many conversations, including discussions in my grad school feminist literary theory class, that many third-wave or post-feminism feminists have come to believe that a strong feminist can also have a sense of humor about feminism.  I'm not for a moment suggesting you lack one, or that anyone who finds my wife's little joke offensive does.  But I am riffing off of more contemporary responses to the old joke How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?  That's not funny, asshole!

          •  dude. (0+ / 0-)

            Seriously, now you're just reaching.  If I had said a racially slanted but 'powerfully descriptive' word, no matter how funny I meant it to be, or how 'empowered' I felt about the fact that I'm a minority (because I am) it wouldn't make using the word legit.  I could tell you I'd taken university level classes on the Shoah or on African American studies (which I have) it still wouldn't excuse using those kinds of words.  If I'd used a slang term that associated with anyone of a different race for example, no matter HOW I meant it to 'come off' it'd be wrong.  This is similarly, just as wrong.

            It offends, because its offensive, not because people lack enough of a sense of 'humour', if someone used a racist term around me, and told me I didn't have a chill enough sense of humour; they'd get a punch to the head.  Its just not funny.
            Your use of the term, especially around your child, is just plain offensive.  I bet you wouldn't use it in public, and I bet you know well enough why you wouldn't.

            "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

            by hopefulcanadian on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 12:39:18 PM PST

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            •  I'm Not Trying to Reach (0+ / 0-)

              but to explain where I'm coming from, and I don't mind if you take issue.  That's your right.  

              I don't equate the word pussy with any racial or ethnic smears.  If you do, then we disagree.  I absolutely despise racial and ethnic prejudice and would never use smears.

              Nor can I abide sexism.  For me, calling a boy "a pussy" has never been about disparaging girls or women, any more than calling someone "a dick" says anything per se about boys or masculinity.  The former is roughly equivalent to "wimp," the latter to "big jerk."

              And as I said, perhaps my wife and I are inconsistent in the privacy of our own home, or politically incorrect, or whatever you wish to call it.  We both cuss a lot in private, to relieve stress and because we like cussing.  We don't cuss in front of our children.

              But for me, the phrase I used before has no connotations to me that are derogatory toward women, aside from the fact that it uses a profane term for a female body part to disparage a guy.  No different, on that level, from calling Mary Matalin "a dick."  (And she is.)  

              If you believe it is inherently wrong to refer to someone by any of these body part words I've been tossing around, then we're on different sides of this issue.  If you believe it is uniquely unacceptable to use female body part profanity in such contexts, then as I wrote above, I'm sensitive to the argument about the ancient habit of debasing words associated with women, but I'm clearly inconsistent in applying that sensitivity (i.e., I cannot abide "bitch" but clearly don't mind "pussy").

              And I proffer my wife as one example of a woman who clearly shares my level of sensitivity in this area.  And among other things, she has a doctorate in ethics and has taught feminist ethics at the university level, so it's not as though she hasn't given much thought to how the language we employ tells us about who we are and what we believe.

      •  I know what you mean.,, (0+ / 0-)

        despite everything, whenever I hear the word "pussy" Jonah Goldberg and Tucker Carlson always come to mind.

        CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. A. Bierce

        by irate on Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 01:00:34 PM PST

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